Low Smoke

[Nick LX]

Trying to organise a low smoke effect without having to use dry ice. Looking at the Glaciator Xstream however wondering if it would be too loud for a musical? And also it might be too powerful, so was wondering if there are any smaller alternatives?

 

Thanks

[Ynot]

We've discussed low smoke here several times - please have a search of topics in this section...

[Nick LX]

I have but the posts always seem to come out with the conclusion to use either the Glaciator or dry ice.

[Unfathomable]

More detail may be needed then. such as what is the size of stage, depth of smoke you need, duration of effect, etc.

[Ynot]

Hmmm...

 

Let me summarise for you then.

 

The best effect for low fog without question is dry ice CO2. It's relatively safe (when used correctly) and does exactly what the name suggests.

 

Low smoke machines CAN give you a similar effect initially BUT because it's still smoke fluid it WILL rise before too long. How long it takes to rise and become just smoke depends on the quality of the machine, how cold that machine makes the smoke and the ambient temperature of the surroundings. ie If your in a warm environment it will rise far quicker than if you use low smoke over an ice rink.

 

There are fast dispersing fluids which dissipate quicker, hence when it does rise it doesn't last as long, but the counter point there is that you then need more smoke produced for an extended effect.

 

Cheaper machines can also only deliver the smoke for a limited and short duration before they have to recharge the heater block to produce the smoke in the first place (pre-chiller).

 

So, as to the actual question, whether it's too loud for a musical...

That depends on where the machine is to be located (you can duct the smoke, but that in itself can reduce the 'lowness' of the fog) and whether you plan to use it in quiet numbers or under dialogue.

[GridGirl]

(you can duct the smoke, but that in itself can reduce the 'lowness' of the fog)

 

Oddly enough, I've usually found the opposite - if you duct the smoke it will stay low to the ground for longer. I've done it with regular foggers several times and the immediate effect is almost that of low fog, but it rises fairly quickly; ducting low fog seems almost to make it work better. You do end up with a slippery patch of condensed smoke juice on the floor at the end of the duct though....

[Ynot]

That is indeed odd, as I've experienced it making it rise quicker...!

[Jeremy MLS]

Sorry to go :** laughs out loud **: but I'm with Grid Girl... Everytime I've used ducting its had the effect of cooling and condensing the smoke more and it comes out much cooler, and lower than normal fog. Of course if you give the smoke machine a big burst then its going to make a lot more noise and still come through the pipe like normal smoke does though. (Maybe its just a southern hempisphere thing with the smoke going down hill rather than up hill for you northern hemispher folk :D )

[Unfathomable]

Surely Ducting smoke from a smoke machine will allow it to cool in the relatively cooler pipe, therefore it will be lower. Whereas the duct from a low fogger will be relativity warm, and so make it rise?

 

This is certainly what I have found since I did once bodge a low fogger to replace a broken one at very short notice. A duct for the smoke from a standard fogger run through ice made it lower. (same principle as a low fogger)

[LXbydesign]

Well, as had been discussed many times as mentioned but the only real contender to actual dry ice has been the Glaciator, as far as im concerned.

 

Sure, I wouldnt want to be using it in a quiet straight play,lets face it - its a lumpy fridge on wheels!!! - but for musicals its fine. It has great control of both the smoke output and how 'cold' you want it to be. Fluid can be long lasting or quick dispersal.

 

The fact I work in a school as well, just the elf & safety assets of the machine up against handling dry ice with scatty teenagers around the area makes it worthwhile in my book.

 

Of course id love to use real dry ice everytime. You cant beat it, but for a 2nd best the Xstream works for me.

[lxboss]

Trying to organise a low smoke effect without having to use dry ice. Looking at the Glaciator Xstream however wondering if it would be too loud for a musical? And also it might be too powerful, so was wondering if there are any smaller alternatives?

 

Thanks

 

Antari I think it is do a nice little machine you just fill it with ice and then it makes your low smoke it will rise eventually if there is a lot of movement through it though. I dont know if you need a lot or little or what but if you're around london then have a look at iasoundandlight.co.uk yes I do work for that company but but thats not why im saying its because that the only place I know you can get one.

 

Hope this helps

[mrcog]

Antari I think it is do a nice little machine you just fill it with ice and then it makes your low smoke it will rise eventually if there is a lot of movement through it though. I dont know if you need a lot or little or what but if you're around london then have a look at iasoundandlight.co.uk yes I do work for that company but but thats not why im saying its because that the only place I know you can get one.

 

Hope this helps

 

If you can get hold of a refrigerated low smoke machine like the glaciator from le maitre or the Antairi DNG 200 your going to get a much better effect that the ones using ice... I've used both the DNG 200 and the one you fill with ice and I found that the one that uses ice gives a fairly awful low smoke to be honest...

 

It might have been the conditions but it was that bad that I probably wouldn't consider using it again... The DNG 200 on the other hand was fantastic, and although isn't as good as the real deal, its fairly close.

 

Just my 2p worth but I hope it helps,

 

James

[smalljoshua]

I've used the DNG100 (the one that bolts on the front of a normal machine) and also the Ice one. I had good experiences with both but the convenience of the DNG100 was worth the extra cost. Even if it did take 3 of us to get up the steps to the theatre.

 

Josh

[S300]

Trying to organise a low smoke effect without having to use dry ice. Looking at the Glaciator Xstream however wondering if it would be too loud for a musical? And also it might be too powerful, so was wondering if there are any smaller alternatives?

 

Thanks

 

I recently used a Glaciator on a production of Beauty & The Beast...

Truly awesome machines!

 

Yes they're noisy ... and yes they weigh 3 tonnes haha But the effect is uncanny!

 

The trick is though to leave it cooling for as long as you can before you engage the pump!

 

 

I was in a theatre that required the maintenance of a 'low noise' environment ... but with 13MAC's in the rig and the Glaciator sitting behind a star cloth.. it was mostly drowned out!

 

Go with one if you can.. And defiantly get a double duct for it!

[LXbydesign]

On the Glaciator, if you fire up the chiller on full for about 60 mins before you use it, I found that to give the best results. I also found using the ducts not as effective as just flowing out direct from the machine.

 

I had it rigged - again behind a starcloth, with the 2 ducts coming out either side of the band deck, but then after a couple of runs decided to 'split' the band up slightly and stick a glaciator in the middle of them so that the output was directly U.S.C.

 

Worked like a dream. Came out and dispersed from US to DS just right.