nickb12345 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Hi I am stage-managing a school production of Grease in December of this year. The problem I have is because of several factors any teachers who are involved in the production seem to think that they are the most important person there. They will always use their powers within the school against any crew (who are mostly students). For example a teacher who is helping in the dressing room will try and tell someone like me (stage manager) what to do, and if you say anything like I’m busy at the moment, I will do it next they pull rank and say do it now or your in detention or similar! How would you handle this sort of situation? Also because if the same sort of thing the cast have been "brainwashed" into thinking that if a teacher tells them to do something that takes priority over what the crew say. Obviously that has many implications, such as H&S. A good example of this was when working on a production earlier in the year I was rigging over the auditoriums while they were rehearsing and the director insisted in the cast sitting UNDER the tower while I was working on it. When I pointed out that the theatre was scheduled for rigging at the time and they shouldn’t even be in there the response was something along the lines of "Are you trying to tell me how to do my job, if so you can consider yourself off the crew"! Any advice will be appreciated greatly! Many Thanks Nick Baker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ247 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Hi Nick, As we don't know the theatre / school, what's the heirachy like there? Is it just teachers helping as they have an interest in theatre or is the Theatre a separate entity with a head of drama or something? Is there a more senior teacher, not necessarily a headmaster, you can talk to? Who supervises / oversees the crew? When I was at school, we were fortunate to treat it as a separate entity with many of the teachers & regular students on a first name basis. This obviously changed when you went through the door & out into "normal" school. As far as the sitting under the tower while rigging above that is just plain stupidity. Teachers are supervising & as such would be held DIRECTLY liable, as well as the school, if anything happened. You are right to be worried about it & it does need sorting out but preferably without being in detention until you are 30!! Look forward to further info R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.henderson Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 That sounds like a complete nightmare, I would hate to work anywhere like that. At the end of the day, I would tell them, you are the sm the most important crew member, I would explain to them, and if they try to pull rank just say, sorry but if you want a sm then you listen to me. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickb12345 Posted September 28, 2004 Author Share Posted September 28, 2004 Hi Thanks for the reply! The theatre is seperate from the school in terms we have out own theatre manager and other staff. The theatre manager is a very technical person and is usually the tech director on most productions but he has exactly the same problem with the staff, because he is an employee of the theatre and not the school the teachers seem to think he is, again, less important that them! The main culprit of this is the ex head of performing arts (ex because she has recently been given the sack from the performings arts job but still teaches it and is a head of year in the school) who seems to think thw world revolves around her. I havnt had the misfortune of being in any of her classes but I get the impression that students have to stand to attention as she enters the room! In theory she has nothing to do with the theatre hireachy (other than someone who uses it) but she dosent see it that way! We call a lot of the other staff who get involved in it by first names in the theatre (the actual theatre staff insist we do) but its just certian individuals who cause a problem! Many Thanks Nick Baker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.henderson Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 ohh and as for handeling cast, in a school situation (not completly like pro theatre) you have authroity over the cast especially when it comes to H&S. If they are endangering themselves or others and they wont stop then I would say you are within your right to have them taken out of the premises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ247 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 The theatre is seperate from the school in terms we have out own theatre manager and other staff. We call a lot of the other staff who get involved in it by first names in the theatre (the actual theatre staff insist we do) Ah, you should be onto a winner as it's set up well. I would suggest having a word with your theatre manager explaining the problem & that it is ongoing & an accident WILL happen at some stage as I'm sure he is aware. He should take this up with the ex-head, if he's feeling lucky (well do ya ...) or someone within the school. It sounds like she is on her way out anyway which is no bad thing. If she stops being stupid the other culprits will probably follow. If the situation where they insist people sit underneath you as you work happens again you MUST, & I can't emphasize this enough, MUST stop work, come down & inform someone in authority like your technical manager. Something needs to be done but you shouldn't do it directly. It is for the school or theatre to act not you as she is their employee / under their control. I'd bet the head would be very interested if he/she knew she was endangering the students! Good LuckR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickb12345 Posted September 28, 2004 Author Share Posted September 28, 2004 Hi I will let you know how I get on! Nick Baker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth_d Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Well Nick,If you ask me the teachers aren`t being very fair. If that was me I`d have to turn around and tell them, look without me there would be no show, you`d have no crew etc... Get my drift!!If anything like the tower incident happens again, tell the well if a light drops on to one of the pupils heads dont say I didn't warn you, if you bring health and safety into it then they`re bound to take more notice of the stage manager and the crew. Take CareBeth x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikienorth Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 look without me there would be no show, you`d have no crew etc... Get my drift!! NO. Without me there would be no... OH, someone else wants to do it who will do what you say... oh well, bye then, bye then... You must not try to call their bluff, because they will just get rid of you. Put it in a logical and justified argument, using comments from here as backup (see gallente 'cable ties') as proof you have asked for another, second, third and fifth opinion before becoming concerned. This asking for advice is also good in case something happens..If in doubt refuse. No-one can call you bad for it, I climbed down a ladder today because I heard a funny noise. No-one laughed, I still have a job, we are all still uninjured... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagardner1984 Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 I don't think you can ever forget that performers can always do it in a black box - they do not need technicians, we need them. Fair enough, the shows would not be of the same standard if it were not for the technicians, but no-one is indispensible, so you have to get them to respect you for your professionalism and attitude, as well as your ability, rather than do the "you will do this or I walk" thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 I've always found the best way to deal with this situation is maturity... Be as kind and helpful as you possibly can be, and then when you do need to make an issue it'll hopefully be listened too, and actioned upon as such. But if you spend all day ranting and raving then your never going to get anywhere and you may as well not bother. But, rememeber the school environment is so different the pro setup that in some ways it can just be best to grin and bear it, and then learn that 99% of the time the pro's don't have this issue. When I went back to light a show at my old school after I left, I wondered why I had let myself get involved in the school mentality again. But I just kept reminding myself that come Monday I'd be back at the realms of reality (ish!) at work and could forget all about totally pointless 'childish' spats. Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagardner1984 Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 If you exercise tact and diplomacy in any situation, theatre or non, school or college or pro, then you are much more likely to ultimately get what you want. Or indeed, get people to listen to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomgirlie Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Sounds like you've got yourself quite a pickle... It is tricky to try and get a balance as alot of high school teachers risk losing their control over the other students if they see that the crew get to talk to them as equals but it is possible to obtain a level of mutual respect... I was lucky enough to be good mates with my high school teachers and the theatre was totally separate, infact, I still go out drinkin with afew of them now. Also, you said you were having trouble with a teacher helping in the dressing room I believe.... Possibly, might be pushin it but... As SM... Just organise the dressing room ect in a certain way. Ie, conveyor system from dress to make-up to your props table ect, to create a positive flow of human traffic towards the stage(,a justifiable reason ofcourse) and then you have effectively taken control of that area so anyone using that area will have to follow your order for the sake of the show. As surely when it comes to any production, put all friendships and dislikes aside.. Everyone gets treated exactly the same for the sake of the show because if your not a team, your nothing. Also... Remember, different people need to be spoken to in different ways.. Some people need the mini hitler, some a gentle nudge and others... Need you to always make it seem as though you're doing them a favour...Sorry, I've written loads.. Hope some of it helps. Its like the old "dont touch the red button" thing... Asking for favours rather than making demands or ordering, makes it far more likely you'll be listened to. Tact, my friend, tact. B x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 I suppose that I'm lucky that I've so for had none of the above problems. Several of the crew are over eager and need controlling which is easily done. Like everyone else has said you have to either say fine my way or no way, and no show. Try them at another level, go to a higher person. As for the cast I've not had any problems with but in amdram I've found them hard to communicate to. so I gave up and did what I said I was going to do any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 I know it's very difficult, but simply because you've got a certain job title in school, this has NOTHING to do with how well you do things. It doesn't matter if you're a brilliant SM, you get treated the same as the idiot who hasn't learned lines, forgets their costume, is always late for rehearsals and has the label of main cast member - star, if you like. Teachers either know their limitations and respect you because you genuinely do know better (and are eternally grateful) or they think they are God and nobody else can be trusted to take on the responsibility that goes with the role. There is b*gger all you can do about it, if your teacher falls into the second category. Even worse, their authority as 'teacher' means they get to play director/company manager/producer, all rolled into one job. As for you being in charge - forget it, you won't be. As a student you can't be, despite the title. Legally what happens during the show - I'm talking accidents, accidental law breaking etc etc - is never going to be down to you. Let's say you accidentally fire a pyro with someone too close and they get burnt - badly. You, as a student, will get away scott free unless it was proven to be a malicious act. The teacher gets crucified, even if s/he was nowhere near. Very likely, the head gets the eventual blame as the ultimate responsible person. It is very hard to be ignored, contradicted and considered a 'moaner' - people will say power's gone to your head, blah blah. Best you can do is suggest things and offer good reasons why your advice is solid - if teacher ignors it, just forget it and move on. In education and amateur productions this is normal. Even in the professional world it is very difficult to get things done sometimes. My panto this year involves some clever flying. The production company are sending me off to Foy to get an up to date ticket that I can wave around if someone insists on doing something dangerous. That said, the director is also the star, and gets to fly. I don't think for one minute that I'll have any real power over this part of the show despite my SM title. I hope your show goes well - best advice is keep at it, but don't worry about being overuled all the time - quite normal, life wise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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