Work experience

[blue_tiger]

Hi all!

 

I am a student of lighting design in Rose Bruford College and just about to graduate in June.

 

I was wondering how I could get some work experience in the industry and more training.

 

I would like to know more about using lighting desks and generally about lighting kit but also get experience of followspoting,assisting in lighting design and learn as much as I can really about everything related to lighting.

 

Thought a good start might be trying to get some work in festivals this summer. I e-mailed some people but haven't got a reply yet.

 

Anyone who could suggest something or maybe offer me a job?? :** laughs out loud **:

 

thanx!

[gareth]

Oh dear, this is going to make me sound like a miserable old cynic, for which I apologise in advance ... but doesn't this just go some way to backing up my theories about lighting design courses turning out students who are chock full of grand ideas about design but know precious little about the tools of the trade? This gentleman/lady is about to graduate from a degree course in a technical theatre subject, yet they still feel that they need to take on some work experience just to get general experience of lighting equipment, f/spot operation, and so on.

 

Blue Tiger, please don't take offence - I'm certainly not levelling any sort of personal criticism at you - it's just my general mistrust of undergraduate degrees in lighting design bubbling to the surface. On the contrary, I guess you are to be applauded for taking the initiative to get yourself out there into the real world and get some hands-on with the kit you're going to be using in your designs in the future - I suspect that a fair number of your peers will be thinking "I have a degree in lighting design, why should I have to know how to focus a lantern or operate a board? Isn't that what electricians are for?". They don't realise that it's usually electricians who make the best lighting designers - almost all of the really good LDs I've worked with in the past started off as sparkies.

 

Anyway, Blue Tiger, sorry to hijack your thread like this - but I do so enjoy a good rant from time to time! Just to prove that I can be constructive too, why not try some of the hire companies around London (which I'm guessing is where you're based, being a Rose Bruford student and everything ...) - places like White Light, Fourth Phase, Neg Earth, Essential, etc. They're quite often glad of people to go in and help in the warehouse, and if you show willing you might well find yourself being asked to go out on jobs in due course. The other option which often seems to work (apparently!) would be a trawl around the West End, knocking on stage doors and giving your phone number to chief electricians - someone somewhere must be looking for a spot op ... :** laughs out loud **: Good luck.

 

[Edited to correct some rather appalling spelling ... :P ]

[NickLee]

The other option which often seems to work (apparently!) would be a trawl around the West End, knocking on stage doors and giving your phone number to chief electricians - someone somewhere must be looking for a spot op ...  :** laughs out loud **: Good luck.

It's also worth noting that there MAY be a catalogue that POSSIBLY (*cough*whitelight*cough*) has stagedoor phone numbers in the reference section - it'd save you a damn lot of walking I suspect.

 

--N

[peter]

*cough*here is the reference section*cough*

[Dave]

Nick/Peter,

 

Careful - coughing has now been proven to result in prosecution in some circumstances! :** laughs out loud **:

 

You might even get a libel writ from a certain Mr Simpson, who is quite probably a millionaire by now.

 

Or maybe you're going down with SARS - yikes!

 

Dave.

[peter]

You might even get a libel writ from a certain Mr Simpson, who is quite probably a millionaire by now.

I thought (as Gareth pointed out the other day) that libel was only if you wrote something untrue.... surely writing that a catalogue contains a section listing phone numbers when it quite clearly does, is not libel?

[Dave]

You might even get a libel writ from a certain Mr Simpson, who is quite probably a millionaire by now.

I thought (as Gareth pointed out the other day) that libel was only if you wrote something untrue.... surely writing that a catalogue contains a section listing phone numbers when it quite clearly does, is not libel?

I was half-joking that the coughs could be considered defamatory!

[Guest lightnix]

Personally I think Blue Tiger is showing just the right attitude by asking for experience and further training opportunities, rather than just expecting to walk into a cushy job on account of having a degree. No course, in any subject, regardless of how extensive or well equipped it is will ever be able to teach you more than 75% of the job. The rest comes from experience and takes time, measurable in years and not months. However, Tiger you do have a very good start which hopefully will help you up the first few rungs of the ladder.

 

Find out the addresses of the various hire companies, write to them, phone them up and try to get appointments to meet people. Then phone them once every month or two to keep in touch. You'll probably just get warehouse stuff to begin with, but prove yourself there and you should eventually get offered some load outs, spot work, then maybe load ins and eventually some actual shows. Solid, hands on show experience can be gained from working for local crewing companies in the meantime. The West End may offer some work, but does tend to tie you down to doing the same thing week in, week out, with little opportunity to learn a great deal. If you must go there, try to find a show that is coming out soon, that way you may get a chance of some work on the Out and maybe on the fit-up for the next show in.

 

The Shepperd site has a huge selection of very useful links to be getting on with and there are publications like the White Book with stacks and stacks of addresses. Keep an eye on The Stage and trade magazines like Lighting & Sound International for opportunities, more addresses and names and get out to the ABTT and PLASA shows to meet some people.

 

Do bear in mind that the business is in recession at the moment and that there are far too many people chasing far too little work. Don't be put off by the initial, inevitable rejections; stick with it and, with perseverence you will succeed in the end.

 

I wish you all the very best with your career.

[Thirdtap]

... but doesn't this just go some way to backing up my theories about lighting design courses turning out students who are chock full of grand ideas about design but know precious little about the tools of the trade?

 

Colleges and schools have to keep 'hands on' equipment operation training basic and teach more of the theory and practise side of these type of courses because..... the 'industry' standards can change quickly leaving people with out of date skills. To explain this I was taught record and edit revox sound cues at college (which was nice) something I have never used due to the arrival of cheap minidisc players.

:** laughs out loud **:

[Rob]

I suspect that a fair number of your peers will be thinking "I have a degree in lighting design, why should I have to know how to focus a lantern or operate a board? Isn't that what electricians are for?".

 

I think I ought to point out a couple of things about the course at Bruford. Although the course is titled 'Lighting Design' many people seem to be under the misaprehension that it purely trains lighting designers and chucks out people who expect to go straight into jobs as designers.

 

Although a substantial part of the course content relates to Lighting Design, the practicalities of making stuff work is certainly not ignored. Students learn about and take show roles as Board Ops, Spot ops, Chief LX and riggers as well as designers. After all, how else would anything happen? The only difference between the Bruford course and others, is that it is all combined under one heading. Hence the confusion...

 

The reason I chose Bruford originaly, was the diversity of its course and its appreciation of real world practises. Not to rubbish any other institution, but I don't understand how people can do a course in Production Electrics without learning much of the design side, and vise versa.

 

I certainly learnt a hell of a lot over the years before I started the course by getting my hands dirty, These three years are a chance to experiment and make mistakes - As Lightnix said, a step up the ladder.

[Ben]

Rob,

 

just want to say its not a case of not learning the design aspect of the course at other institutes.

At CSSD we as production LX learn about design but in a different way to the LDs we do it more by going to debriefs of shows with the LD, and I feel in many ways that interpreting others designs is often more of a chalenge than designing yourself. At central we have opertnitys to contribute to designs and discuss and learn as much as the LDs but we in timetabled sessions concentate on the rold of Production LX in as much as we would work out the logistics of putting the whole design together and touring it, along with different problems in different venues and relights.

Just because we concentrate on the technical side does not mean we have no opertunity to do design work to.

 

However Rob, I must say that untill our conversation a little while ago I didnt realist the amount of technical work involved in your course hoever the venues at Bruford are not really the type of thing that you are likely to come across in the west end for instance and at Central we seem to have much more scope for experementing in different styles of venue on site without the need to find experiance elsewhere just to use a venue.

 

just wanted to let everyone know that its not quite how Rob has put across, the production LX strand at central at least get a chance to learn adn experement with designs aswell but it is not our main concentration.

 

Ben

[James C]

Colleges and schools have to keep 'hands on' equipment operation training basic and teach more of the theory and practise side of these type of courses because..... the 'industry' standards can change quickly leaving people with out of date skills. To explain this I was taught record and edit revox sound cues at college (which was nice)  something I have never used due to the arrival of cheap minidisc players.

:** laughs out loud **:

ain't necessarily so - I was chatting to a Lighting Designer the other night who's off to my old drama school next month to sit on cans in a pre-rigged & focussed theatre and play LD specifically to test students' board opping skills! Good to see training in arguably more mundane parts of the job getting the attention they deserve.

 

Surely the more experience you get on as many types/brands of kit as possible whilst at college can only stand you in good stead - as well as getting you started on building up your knowledge, it demonstrates to tutors your versatility, when you're willing and able to use the dust-gathering Sirius in the store-room to get the job done, when the 430 in the studio collapses during the dress!

 

To some extent, I don't think it matters what kit you've used at college, as long as you've used it enough to feel comfortable with it, and then be able to face new kit with an "oh, I see, its a bit like a ******, only you store the cues in pages" approach.

 

To use a simple example: If you only teach the theory of how gobos work and where they go, you don't know how rough you can be (and may have to be) when trying to drop them into a source 4. The book will tell you where they slot in, but won't point out the need to use a jackhammer on occasion to do so! Once you've cursed a few, however, you'll be more than willing to apply the same amount of (controlled!) brute force to a range of different lanterns when the need arises.

[smeggie]

hi

if you try the links, I reccomend affinity ltd.as they seem to be the frendliest around and are taking on crew (apparently) for the summer- they do corporate stuf as well so there seems to be more £ up for grabs if your'e any good.

good luck.

[James]

I am a student of lighting design in Rose Bruford College and just about to graduate in June.

 

As someone involved mainly in Am-Dram Theatre who has had no real professional Theatre training I have always looked with a certain amount of envy on those who got into places like RB particularly when one of the guys from my old school who applied was told he had to go out and get more experiance - This was the guy at the school who lit practicaly everything going and these wern't exactly small productions either.

 

Never knew what hapened to him - I don't supose you know of a Mark Whitmore - would be interesting to get in touch if he is around??

 

 

Oh well I always though it would be nice to know how to do things properly rather than just muddling along picking up bits as you go

 

James

[gareth]

Personally I think Blue Tiger is showing just the right attitude by asking for experience and further training opportunities, rather than just expecting to walk into a cushy job on account of having a degree.

In a way, I guess that's part of the point I was trying to make. Respect to BlueTiger for being willing to organise a bit of work experience off his/her own bat in order to get out there into the world and spend some time working with the equipment which will be the tools of their future trade. I have a feeling that a large number of lighting design degree graduates would (wrongly) consider themselves to be above that sort of thing.