Advice Please!!: Pearl Tiger...

[maxjones2000]

Hi, a few weeks ago I posted a topic about whether I should use a Pearl Tiger or a Jester Zero88 & Pearl Tiger for Return to the Forbidden Planet. Most people suggested that I use the Pearl for both the cuestack bits and the live bits (as in songs). However, recently, I have been 'messing around' on the Pearl simulator trying to work the cuestack and combine it with busking (for the songs), and I don't understand how to use/program the cuestack and then do little bits live over the top (even after looking at the manual I dont understand). So I thought it may be a good idea to come on here and ask whether anyone has any simpler ways of using a cuestack for the acting part and then busking the songs?? :)

 

I was wondering whether it might be much easier (to operate) the acting off the cuestack on the Jester Zero88 desk and then for the songs (and little acting bits where moving lights are required) switch over to the Pearl desk (do this by fading up the grandmaster on the Pearl when required) and busk it (after previously programming colours/gobos/positions onto the flash pallette and shapes/chases onto the playbacks)?? :) Would this be better?

 

Thanks :)

(sorry this is a bit long-winded)

Please give advice!!

[SimonH]

I don't understand how to use/program the cuestack and then do little bits live over the top

Hi there,

 

I've just reviewed the Tiger Touch (clicky) and I was also confused by how to use these smaller Avo desks to mix theatre and live events, so you're not alone!

 

The answer is that you can - just program one of the playbacks (say #10) as a cue list and make it 'sticky' so that it stays there even if you change playback pages. That way, you still have a standard theatre stack with fade in/out times and a 'Go' button, but can overlay/takeover the current state with other playbacks or palettes.

 

You do loose out on some functionality (e.g. independant A/B masters) but you can setup the playback to be a crossfader and run the show from that or the 'Go' button alongside any busking you might want to do.

 

If you think this method might work for you, let me know and I can post specific instructions on how to do this.

 

S.

[andrewt]

If you want to use the standard Theatre Stack mode, from what I remember there's nothing complicated about using the playbacks at the same time as it. Just record cues as normal (Theatre Stack mode -> "Record Menu" -> [cue number] -> "Record Stage/Record Programmer").

When you want to add a playback live, just throw it up, and it should behave as if the cue stack was on another playback, eg dimmers use Highest Takes Precedence and attributes ues Latest Takes Precedence. You can use the Theatre Stack master (Playback 7 on the Tiger, I think) to take out the dimmer channels from the cue list if you want the other playbacks to have full control.

 

Perhaps the method mentioned in the previous post would suit you better, though, as using Theatre Stack eats up four of your playbacks, which are limited on a Tiger.

 

Whichever way you do it, I'd definitely say to run eveything off one desk.

[maxjones2000]

I don't understand how to use/program the cuestack and then do little bits live over the top

Hi there,

 

I've just reviewed the Tiger Touch (clicky) and I was also confused by how to use these smaller Avo desks to mix theatre and live events, so you're not alone!

 

The answer is that you can - just program one of the playbacks (say #10) as a cue list and make it 'sticky' so that it stays there even if you change playback pages. That way, you still have a standard theatre stack with fade in/out times and a 'Go' button, but can overlay/takeover the current state with other playbacks or palettes.

 

You do loose out on some functionality (e.g. independant A/B masters) but you can setup the playback to be a crossfader and run the show from that or the 'Go' button alongside any busking you might want to do.

 

If you think this method might work for you, let me know and I can post specific instructions on how to do this.

 

S.

 

Hi, thanks for the suggestion! Glad its not just me, because everyone else I've asked seems to think that the cuestack is good - I think its awful!!

 

Would you mind posting instructions? When you said about playback #10 did you mean that being like the cuestack master (sorry I dont know the technical words etc.)? I dont use the A/B masters so thats not a problem!

 

Thankyou so much for your help, its useful knowing that I'm not the only person! This really does seem a much easier way. Cheers! :) :)

 

Oh, randomly, I thought that review was brilliant - sounds quite a good desk, although judging by the image on the Avo website it desperatley lacks faders

[dosxuk]

Bear in mind the Pearl Tiger and Pearl Tiger Touch are completely different desks, running different software and having different options available. Cue Stacks as available on the Tiger Touch are not available on the Pearl Tiger, but you can unlink a chase and use that in a similar (but not as powerful) manner to a cue stack.

 

Can you explain the problem you're having with running other stuff as well as the cue stack, as it is as simple as lifting another playback while the theatre stack is running.

[maxjones2000]

Bear in mind the Pearl Tiger and Pearl Tiger Touch are completely different desks, running different software and having different options available. Cue Stacks as available on the Tiger Touch are not available on the Pearl Tiger, but you can unlink a chase and use that in a similar (but not as powerful) manner to a cue stack.

 

Can you explain the problem you're having with running other stuff as well as the cue stack, as it is as simple as lifting another playback while the theatre stack is running.

 

hi, that makes sense actually. Basically, when using cuestack in run mode, if I put up a playback (like a shape for 4 mac 600s that is not programmed into the cuestack) and leave it at 100, when I press go, nothing happens. However, because I have only tried it on the simulator it could be a problem with my pc.

 

Sorry this is a little brief, it's just I haven't got long as I'm busy. I'll put more detail on tomorrow (in necessary)

 

I've also tried unfolding a chase, but you can't edit the fade times (not to my knowledge) and also you have to put the chase back together (press unfold again) before you cam do anything else.

 

Thanks for helping everyone!

[niclights]

As James pointed out the Tiger runs classic software while the Touch runs Titan. So unfortunately Simon's suggestions are not applicable here. And theatre stack mode will take up four playbacks which, if you don't have the wing connected, might make things a bit tight. It may also be worth mentioning that you must change internal jumpers to enable theatre stack control on the console faders if you don't have a wing. If you need more faders then hire/buy a wing (most hire consoles I've seen come with one) or use one of the larger consoles (standard Pearl/Expert/D4)

 

I don't really understand what you mean by "if I put up a playback.....when I press go, nothing happens". A cue in a playback will fire as soon as it is raised above the trigger point (user settings) for LTP or simply increase intensity as HTP. If you had an unlinked chase step then you would press GO to fire the next step.

 

You can edit times from unfold. But it is not designed to be used for operation. Unfold is an editing function only. Indeed it is not generally recommended to run shows from program mode, if for no other reason than the playback add and swop buttons are used for linked copy/paste. The only time I would consider breaking this rule would be for live shape creation. Those are desperate times! I certainly would never operate from unfold.

 

 

Personally I would never use two consoles if I can avoid. I would, however, always choose a console I am most comfortable with given the option. Reading this and your other questions makes me think you are way out of your depth and making a mistake using a console you are not familiar with. While there's no substitute for having a real project to aid learning I feel you are really struggling with this one. Therefore I would suggest you program/operate the entire show on the Jester for now. Afterwards you will have plenty of time to learn the Avo consoles at your leisure. Perhaps you could go and get some training with Emma and take on less complicated task for your initiation.

[Davethsparky]

hi, that makes sense actually. Basically, when using cuestack in run mode, if I put up a playback (like a shape for 4 mac 600s that is not programmed into the cuestack) and leave it at 100, when I press go, nothing happens. However, because I have only tried it on the simulator it could be a problem with my pc.

 

Right, my guess on this one is that when you press go on the cuestack in this situation the cue that it moves into contains no data for the mac 600's and so they will continue to do whatever is in the playback that is still at 100. what happens when you pull the playback fader down?

[maxjones2000]

hi, that makes sense actually. Basically, when using cuestack in run mode, if I put up a playback (like a shape for 4 mac 600s that is not programmed into the cuestack) and leave it at 100, when I press go, nothing happens. However, because I have only tried it on the simulator it could be a problem with my pc.

 

Right, my guess on this one is that when you press go on the cuestack in this situation the cue that it moves into contains no data for the mac 600's and so they will continue to do whatever is in the playback that is still at 100. what happens when you pull the playback fader down?

 

Hi

nothing actually happens when I pull the playback fader down (as in the cuestack master - playback 12), but when I pull the playback fader down for like one of the shapes, the lights stop moving, as expected. bearing in mind though, I was trying to use the pearl simulator with the avo offline visualizer and my computer is pretty knackered :) so it could be a problem with that.

 

The lighting is coming into school a week this Wednesday, so I'll give everyones suggestions a try and see which works best for me.

 

 

 

"Therefore I would suggest you program/operate the entire show on the Jester for now"

Hi, thanks for the advice. I had thought about doing this, but in January we tried to put intelligent lighting on the Jester and it didnt like it :) , so all I can assume is that the Jester we are using does not support moving lights.

I dont have a problem with busking on the Pearl (thats really easy to do), but as you said, I'd rather use one desk... I'll see what I can do with the Pearl. Cheers!

[Davethsparky]

Hi

nothing actually happens when I pull the playback fader down (as in the cuestack master - playback 12), but when I pull the playback fader down for like one of the shapes, the lights stop moving, as expected. bearing in mind though, I was trying to use the pearl simulator with the avo offline visualizer and my computer is pretty knackered :D so it could be a problem with that.

 

The lighting is coming into school a week this Wednesday, so I'll give everyones suggestions a try and see which works best for me.

 

What happens when you push the playback master back up again? It should in theory advance to the next cue.

Have you tried pressing the 'clear' button to see if this helps the situation?

I think it is very unlikely that the state of your computer has had this sort of effect on the software you are using.

 

, so all I can assume is that the Jester we are using does not support moving lights.

 

Is it a jester or a jester ml? this will tell you whether it supports moving lights or not. Or even more simply put, if it has the buttons and wheels needed to control moving lights then it has the ability to do so.

[maxjones2000]

Hi

nothing actually happens when I pull the playback fader down (as in the cuestack master - playback 12), but when I pull the playback fader down for like one of the shapes, the lights stop moving, as expected. bearing in mind though, I was trying to use the pearl simulator with the avo offline visualizer and my computer is pretty knackered :D so it could be a problem with that.

 

The lighting is coming into school a week this Wednesday, so I'll give everyones suggestions a try and see which works best for me.

 

What happens when you push the playback master back up again? It should in theory advance to the next cue.

Have you tried pressing the 'clear' button to see if this helps the situation?

I think it is very unlikely that the state of your computer has had this sort of effect on the software you are using.

 

, so all I can assume is that the Jester we are using does not support moving lights.

 

Is it a jester or a jester ml? this will tell you whether it supports moving lights or not. Or even more simply put, if it has the buttons and wheels needed to control moving lights then it has the ability to do so.

 

sorry, I won't be able to tell you what happens when I pull up the playback fader until Wednesday evening as that's when I'll next have access to the actual desk, and I can't get on the simulator at the moment. Thankyou for the help!

It's not the jester ml, and has no wheels etc. I think it's just the standard jester cuestack desk. To be honest, I hadn't thought of pressing clear.. The lighting technician that came in in February said that with that desk you has to keep pressing clear on that desk oherwise it starts being strange.

I'll have a play on Wednesday and try the simulator.

 

Thankyou so much for all the help :D

[niclights]

The lighting technician that came in in February said that with that desk you has to keep pressing clear on that desk oherwise it starts being strange.

That's the sort of nonsense you hear from operators who don't understand the console. In my experience it's almost always operator error, rather than desks behaving strangely.

By pressing once it clears the programmer and deselects any fixtures in the editor. Subsequent presses are irrelevant although many users might press more than once in habit. By design values in the programmer will take priority over playbacks (thus the meaning of 'takeover' in run takeover mode) and things only end up in the programmer if you put them there. That is why I said it was vital you understand the programmer in another thread.

[EmmaThompson]

When you are using a Pearl in Theatre Stack mode, as Nick said, the last four playbacks become masters. Playback 12 is the Grand Master for the stack, so when you pull it down will only kill intensity, you will still be able to use the 'go' command to advance through the cues. Playbacks 13-15 in Theatre Stack mode are manual cross fade for HTP in, HTP out and LTP in/out. You can them to crossfade to the next step, however the step won't be "active" until all 3 faders are at full, you can then pull them down to zero and cross fade again. Pushing playback 12 back up will not crossfade to the next cue, as Dave suggests, just re-introduce the intensity.

If you have a shape in a step, pulling down playback 12 won't stop it playing back as with a normal cue, it will just kill the intensity.

 

Make sure you understand the principles of record by channel/fixture/stage, as depending on what record mode you have used, you may get different results to what you expect, ie. using locate puts no information into the programmer, so if you record this in channel mode, even though it looks like the fixture is at full, you won't get dimmer information in your cue.

 

If you need a more detailed explanation of Theatre Stack, feel free to contact me: emma@avolites.com and we'll arrange some training for you. There is also a Theatre Stack section in our manual, which you can download from our website.

 

Thanks,

[mumbles]

When you are using a Pearl in Theatre Stack mode, as Nick said, the last four playbacks become masters. Playback 12 is the Grand Master for the stack, so when you pull it down will only kill intensity, you will still be able to use the 'go' command to advance through the cues. Playbacks 13-15 in Theatre...[snip]

Note that with the tiger (as the topic refers to, these masters do become 7 through 10, unless you have the extra little fader wing, in which case you can do a pin swap inside the desk to move the masters back to 12-15

 

M

[niclights]

Note that with the tiger (as the topic refers to, these masters do become 7 through 10, unless you have the extra little fader wing, in which case you can do a pin swap inside the desk to move the masters back to 12-15

Or rather it is the other way around. IIRC the default is wing enabled as I mentioned above.