Questions about basic lighting setup

[Tomo]

Sheesh, you're really trying to leap in at the deep end, and I think you're wearing concrete shoes.

 

The Botex DSP-405 is a 4-channel switchpack - it is not a dimmerpack. You'll get on/off control, nothing more.

The DDP-405 is the equivalent dimmerpack.

 

On the upside, it is designed to be plugged into a standard wallsocket and fused for that so you're unlikely to actually kill anyone or set fire to the place using one of them. More than one is another matter altogether.

 

You need to get some knowledge in electricity theory before you even consider doing this.

 

For example, do you know how many PAR64 lights you can plug into that unit?

Do you know what the current rating is of the standard European-style wallsockets?

Do you know how to find out what the current rating is of the ring main the wallsockets are connected to?

 

These are very basic questions and if you get the answers wrong you can do some serious damage, both to your and other's equipment, and even to people.

 

You clearly don't yet have the knowledge required to do what you are suggesting, so take the time to learn!

 

Go to those places you mentioned, and ask questions while you are there.

Unless time is very tight, the experienced technicians will be happy to answer (so long as you don't ask the same one too many times!) and you'll learn a lot.

 

Remember, you are going to go to these places to LEARN. So you want them to already have technicians, because otherwise you will not learn very much.

If you walked into an amateur production, tried to connect everything up and couldn't figure out why your dimmers didn't do anything, they'd never trust you again.

 

In answer to your questions:

Plug the lights into the dimmer (ensuring you don't exceed the ratings), the DMX cable into the desk output and the dimmer input (ensuring correct phase etc), daisy-chain out of each dimmer pack into the next one, terminate the DMX chain and turn everything on.

(Usually desk first, although it doesn't matter much with modern equipment)

 

Make sure you never turn on so much that you exceed the rating of the ring main or any individual wall socket while running the show!

 

And finally, please, PLEASE don't just buy the kit and walk into a pub.

Pub venues are actually among the most difficult to rig and light safely as you are constrained so much by power requirements, not to mention the difficulty of keeping people and live equipment apart, keeping within fire regs etc etc.

[hetsscaryguy]

ive looked everywhere and cant find the power rating for the botex dimmers so I dont know how many I can plug in. im going to e-mail thomann to find out.

yes I know that european standard sockets are 240v

how do I find out the current rating?

 

if I was to do as you suggested by plugging everything in should it in theory work. do I have to plug each dimmer into a different plug socket? I take it I do. and last but not least how do you terminate a DMX signal.

 

 

oh and can anyone recommend a good book to explain all this for me I was looking at this one http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...g=UTF8&v=glance

 

it seems to be good.

[TomLyall]

Botex DDP-405 4 Ch DMX dimmerpack, 4A / Ch total 16A. 16built-in programs, Stand-alone function, master-slavefunction. Connectors: XLR m/f, 4 pcs safety sockets ,dimmension: 212 x 188 x 71 mm, weight: 2,4 kg

 

Its right there on their website. The rating is 4A per channel (each socket) and a 16A total.

 

Each of these dimmer's will require its own socket, although I don't think you should be considering pluging even one of these in let alone two without learning some more about electrical safety.

 

To terminate a DMX line you will need a DMX terminator, which is a XLR plug with a 120 ohm resistor connected between pins 2 & 3.

[hetsscaryguy]

I take your point on not doing anything until I learn a little more about safety. but how many par 56's could I put on each of those dimmers before I start doing damage. (I know the obvoius answer is one because I have no experience but technically how many can it take) would a smallish venue be able to take a rig of 12 par56's on 3 dimmers, a board, aswell as bands gear and a small PA.

 

im sorry if im asking rediculous questions (which I know I am) but I really do want to get into this whole area. thanks for your patience, and im sorry if this post has gone a little off track.

 

oh not that id imagine that anybody here cares because ive been a litttle annoying with these constant beginners posts but I have decided to abandon plans to go to Full Sail and have started looking into possible bachelors degrees in lighting design in the states.

 

 

thanks for your help thus far.

[TomLyall]

Well if your using 56's, it depends if you fit them with 300 or 500w lamps.

 

Those dimmer packs will take 920w per channel at 230v, obviously limited by the total loading and avalible power as well.

 

Which means that if you had 56's with 300w lamps then you could have 12 pars on just one dimmer pack, although I would not recommend you do this as you would have to be careful about startup surges.

[hetsscaryguy]

so it would be fine to have 4 pars on 3 seperate dimmer packs with 300w bulbs?

[TomLyall]

Why would you want to do that?

 

If you mean 4 pars on each of three dimmer packs, then yes it would be possible, although forgive me for not being able to see why you would want to...

[gareth]

so it would be fine to have 4 pars on 3 seperate dimmer packs with 300w bulbs?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What you need to know for this particular calculation is that :

 

Current Draw = Wattage / Voltage

 

So the amount of current drawn by a 300w Par56 will be 300 / 240 = 1.25A.

 

If your dimmers are rated at 4A per channel, then you can safely run 3 Par56s on one dimmer.

 

A ring main outlet is rated at 13A, so you can safely run a total of 10 Par56s on a dimmer pack that's connected to a 13A outlet. These 10 can be spread across all four channels according to the limitation outlined in the previous paragraph.

 

Etc. etc. ........

[hetsscaryguy]

thank you very much it all seems easy understand now. I didnt know how you calculate the draw off a pug. so does that mean I can have a 2 way extension cable puting 2 lamps into 1 dimmer socket or do I have to use some sepcialist cable. I also cant help but noticing the sockets are round on that botex dimmer, but here in ireland anyway plugs are all square, does that mean that the extension cables used will have to come from germany too?

[gareth]

thank you very much it all seems easy understand now. I didnt know how you calculate the draw off a pug. so does that mean I can have a 2 way extension cable puting 2 lamps into 1 dimmer socket or do I have to use some sepcialist cable. I also cant help but noticing the sockets are round on that botex dimmer, but here in ireland anyway plugs are all square, does that mean that the extension cables used will have to come from germany too?

Answer 1 ..... you can run as many lanterns as you like off a single extension cable, within the limits of the capacity of the dimmer channel that's feeding it, as long as the cable and connectors are suitably rated. The usual connectors for stage lighting purposes in the UK are either round-pin 15A connectors (similar style and layout to a standard 13A connector, but with ... well, round pins!), or 16A Ceeform connectors ('straight-line' style connectors, usually with a blue polycarbonate body, but also available in black). Cable is usually 1.5mm2 (2.5mm2 is also often used with 16A connectors, as 1.5mm2 'tops out' at 15A). Into the end of this cable, you can plug an adapter which will allow you to run two or three lanterns from one cable. As long as you stay within the ratings of your dimmers, cable and connectors, you can also daisy-chain these adapters to run more lanterns from the same cable (although unless you're confident that you know what you're doing with your calculations, it might be best to avoid this!).

 

Answer 2 ..... from the pic on the Thomann website, my guess would be that those connectors are Schuko sockets. These are commonplace in continental Europe, but not so in the UK. Your best bet would be to get someone to knock up a set of adapter leads for you, to jump the Schuko connectors into something more common (15A, 16A or perhaps even IEC if you're only ever going to be running small loads like Par56s). Wouldn't advise 13A square-pin connectors for dimmer use, though - far too much potential for confusion and equipment damage ....

[hetsscaryguy]

sorry to keep questioning but is 16A not 3 phase. and if so do all venues have the ability to provide it. I thought normal house sockets were 13A am I wrong?

[gareth]

sorry to keep questioning but is 16A not 3 phase. and if so do all venues have the ability to provide it. I thought normal house sockets were 13A am I wrong?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In 11 years in the professional lighting business I've never encountered a 3-phase 16A supply. The only instances in which I've ever seen 3-phase 16A connectors used is to feed chain motors. 16A in the context of my previous post is most definitely single-phase.

 

And yes, normal domestic ring main sockets are 13A.

[hetsscaryguy]

is it possible to wire a domestic plug to 16A. and is this the way a 16A plug looks http://www.marinco2.com/showProduct.asp?p=301EL-BX sorry the angle is a little bit hard to make out the pins but is this the kind of plug ill need to look for, and is it just a case of rewiring the Schuko plug to that 16A plug. and do most theatre provide this power source

and finally is there a converter you can buy to allow 16A plugs go into a standard 13A socket because ive seen buildaers with a pack that they can plug into the wall and which distributes 16A power or so it seems.

[gareth]

is it possible to wire a domestic plug to 16A.

It's possible to get 2.5mm2 cable into a 13A plug, but the bottom line is that a 13A plugtop is rated at, surprisingly enough, 13A (and it'll also be fused accordingly) - so regardless of the size of cable that you manage to stuff into it, and the socket that you have on the other end of the cable, you can only draw 13A through a 13A plug.

 

and is this the way a 16A plug looks http://www.marinco2.com/showProduct.asp?p=301EL-BX  sorry the angle is a little bit hard to make out the pins but is this the kind of plug ill need to look for

A 16A Ceeform connector looks like this :

http://www.stage-electrics.co.uk/s26/221020.jpg

 

and is it just a case of rewiring the Schuko plug to that 16A plug. and do most theatre provide this power source

and finally is there a converter you can buy to allow 16A plugs go into a standard 13A socket because ive seen buildaers with a pack that they can plug into the wall and which distributes 16A power or so it seems.

If the dimmer pack has got Schuko outlets on it, then that's what it's got, full stop. If you want to plug anything else in, you'll have to make/buy an adapter.

 

Speaking of which, yes, you can use an adapter to feed a 16A plug from a 13A socket - but you can only draw 13A 'downstream' of the adapter.

 

The transformers that you've seen building contrators using are something else again - they step 240v down to 110v for use with professional power tools. Don't even go there! :)

[Stu]

Hi Conor.

 

You may want to look at the Showtec version of the 4x5A dimmer - which as far as I'm aware is exactly the same, minus the cover. They supply a UK version with 8x IECs (to 4 channels still) so if all your running off it is Par 56s then you can put the supplied IECs onto those lanterns and problem is solved.

 

The Thomman link is http://www.netzmarkt.de/thomann/iw_sb.html?iwid=2&art=171187 - there is a slight lead time on the product but it's worth thinking about.

 

As this has two sockets for each dimmers you don't have to worry about making up arguably dodgy IEC splitters, or buying the proper made ones.

 

Just a little point - these packs are 5A, not 4A.

 

Thomann are also good for Par 56s - £8 for the Par, £6 for the lamp. £2 for a Safety Bond and your looking at a complete lantern for under £20. (Obviously you'd need a Stand and T-bar to rig onto... Different subject matter tho!)

 

Stu