Burning Waste Bin on Stage

[Malcolm Gordon]

Our group is commencing rehearsals for the farce "No S?x Please, We're British". The action calls for a metal waste-paper bin to be set alight. The (edited) stage directions say

"She drops 4 or 5 photos in the metal waste-paper bin; takes a further photo, sets fire to a corner; it burns well but when dropped into the bin it belches out black smoke. To extinguish it she tips a vase of flowers and water into it. It continues to smoke; she then retrieves a charred and blackened flower."

I'm looking for suggestions as to how to achieve this safely. Given that the play ran for 17 years in the West End, tours occasionally and is a favourite of amateur groups, I am hoping that someone here has experience of working the effect (or similar).

 

Before anyone asks, I propose to make a risk assessment and ask for permission from the venue and the LA, when I know how we are going to do it.

 

All contributions welcome.

 

Malcolm

[sleah]

I'm no expert, but my first thoughts are do you need black smoke? I think white smoke will give the audience the idea of what's happening. I'm saying that because black smoke will be difficult to do short of doing what it's says on the tin and burning photos...... :)

So a small fogger in the bin will do the smoke bit :** laughs out loud **:

 

Could they just pretend to set fire to the pictures by going through the actions just in the lip of the bin so the audience don't actually see what's happening, but will guess?

Then over to the fogger and some coloured lamps :huh:

 

 

ETA: or do what Will suggests below :(

[WiLL]

Metal waste basket of a heavy enough gauge to withstand the heat.

Plenty of water in the vase.

Sufficient rehearsal.

Crew member standing by and observing with a fire extinguisher.

Suitable risk assessment.

Don't see any problems except for panicky people in the heirachy putting their feet down.

[TheLightsTech]

Just make sure you can (read have permission, RAs, fire watch, ect) to bypass or otherwise prevent the fire alarms from going off. At one theatre I work at, on shows involving pyro/fog/haze/flame we need a 2 person fire watch (one our crew, one trained electrician). The alarms in the actual stage and house are disabled, but do show at the panel (and we have a pretty good idea which ones should be going off). Alarms in other parts of the building show as an active alarm at the panel, and out crew member goes to investigate while the electrician calls the fire department to tell them we have a possible situation and are investigating. If someone doesn't acknowledge the alarm within 30 sec (I think) or if a second nearby active alarm goes off it will go to full evacuation. If it turns out to be nothing then we can cancel a single active alarm (not evacuate the audience), but we still have to have the fire department come.

 

Before everyone jumps about investigating before evacuating, we have a large (over 3000) venue, therefore an evacuation is a hazard in and of itself. Many arenas and such around here have the same sort of system. It is totally plausible to expect injuries from panicked people trying to get out if we were to evacuate.

[Jivemaster]

Waste bin is a special! Some water already in the base and a charred flower.

Light the corner of a picture, throw it in the bin (of water) add vase of water and flowers, small smoke puff (pyro) or shot from a smoke machine then pick out the other flower. Re-use charred flower and fresh flowers.

 

Alarms, permissions in writing, and the dreaded elf of safety.

[TomHoward]

I would do similar to suggested, except I'd probably consider soldering / rivetting a metal division in the waste bin so it has two sides - so you can drop the burning photo into one side, and let it burn to create the smoke, and drop the unburnt photos and pre-charred rose in the other side, keeping them separate to minimise the amount of stuff that can catch fire. If you need some more smoke consider generating it, but depending on the paper / laminated photo used there may be plenty.

[andy_s]

I'd tend to agree with Will, I don't see an issue with naked flame on stage if it is properly managed, and it will be more convincing than a smoke machine or pyro - not least because they will make the wrong noise - and coloured lights, which might in any case mean you'd also have to fake the water - I'd be more worried about pouring water in the vicinity of the electrical kit.

 

I would add that an indoor fire juggling act we've hosted used pre-soaked towels to deal with any stray flames very effectively. This might be better than a fire extinguisher - the force of the fire extinguisher it it was misdirected, might be enough to knock the bucket over, whereas dropping a soaked towel into (not over) the wastepaper bin wouldn't do this. I'd still have an extinguisher appropriate for the type of fire close at hand as a back-up as well, though, and a fire blanket in case some unfortunate actor manages to set their clothes on fire, with people around who know the correct way to use one.

 

Having said this, if there's enough water in the vase, I doubt whether you'd need to resort to other means of extinguishing the fire. I think you may need to disguise a "pre-charred" flower amongst the "fresh" ones, which of course could be re-used, but the photos are consumables and new ones needed for each performance, so remember to budget for them!

 

and of course make sure as others have said that the smoke sensors in the venue can be managed. It's pretty common in the UK to have a two-stage fire alarm with provision for disabling sensors in the auditorium for smoke / haze such as thelightstech describes in his US venue, (we too recognise the risks attached to mass evacuation and therefore allow an investigation period before going to full evacuation mode) but by no means universal.

[wycome5]

A gas flame ring mounted in the top (manufactured by Howard Eaton) would provide perfect controllable flames. Items could easily be dropped behind it and into the bin. 7sec smoke cart. for black smoke if really required.

[Guest lightnix]

You may find some useful tips in this old thread.

 

Similar situation, but with a bigger bin.

[Malcolm Gordon]

Thanks for the suggestions, some of which are more elaborate than we need. The whole effect will last probably 30 seconds. The bin is carried from beside a desk to centre stage before ignition, so no possibility of any connections to it. After the lit photo is dropped in we don't need more flame, only smoke, but I imagine a mini-fogger would not like being doused with water.

 

I shall do some experimenting before talking informally to the venue technician, who has exerience in dealing with the licensing officer.

[Jivemaster]

Carrying the bin limits choices but does suggest a small radio remote pyro trigger driven by a PP3 or some AA cells. Prime the bin with a mini smoke and a "charred" flower and a little water. Your local minilab will likely do you 50 prints off one neg for 5p each or similar. the spare prints that just get wet cn be washed for reuse -prints are a wet process so wet once more will be little problem! Just air dry them or hair dry them.

[Malcolm Gordon]

Jivemaster very kindly read the thread from my original post, where a charred flower is mentioned in the stage directions.

 

I'm not familiar with the mini smoke nor a small radio remote radio pyro trigger. Can you point me in the right direction? (Pause for chorus of "If you don't know about pyro you shouldn't be considering them").

[Jivemaster]

The instructions say she tips flowers into the bin and retrieves a charred one later. I suggest that you have some flowers in the vase and one flower with added black spray paint (as charred!) in the bin prior to the action.

 

Black smoke could be your problem Le Maitre do med and large smokes in colours but not in black their mini smoke puff has white smoke as do their smoke pellets. prints burn but don't burn with significant black smoke. SFX supplies also do white and coloured smokes but not black.

 

Trigger could be a microswitch that detects the prints going into the bin, or a nylon thread that the burning print melts. All system powered by a PP3 or some AA cells.

[Malcolm Gordon]

Sounds like a project coming up! Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll go away and ponder. I'm not sure that black smoke is essential, although it looks more alarming on stage; I'll discuss with the director.

 

(Incidentally, the first paragraph in my previous post, which now appears a little odd, was in response to a somewhat snide overnight posting which has since been moderated away or withdrawn).

[Jivemaster]

A Le Maitre smoke PELLET will make white smoke for a minute or more once physically lit, would the action with the burning print allow the tallent to actually light their own pyro smoke pellet? Always assuming that the producer will permit the smoke to be white. Wrap one in clingfilm to waterproof it then hold the burning print by it to light it. Simple!