TeeJay Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hi, we are revamping our server to allow remote access to all files (Finally!) and in re-doing the risk assessments for off-site work, we are hitting a snag with the DSE regs. Specifically, we are wondering if there is any guidance that specficially references touch screen inputs. Guidance note L26 on DSE mentions about keeping the weight down and that touch pads and external mice are preferred but there's no mention of things like tablet pc's that recognise handwriting or iPhones and so on. This obviously doesn't matter for short-term use as that is excluded but there are getting to be more forms of non-keyboard input (touchscreens, voice recognition) and there seems to be omissions concerning these. Anyone have more up to date info? Any help appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 For those of us who don't understand (despite a quick google) what you mean - could you explain a little? I can't work out what your post is asking. Sorry, for the thickness. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 The guidance you quote specifically mentions touchscreens in Para 9: " With a few exceptions (see paragraphs 21-26), the definition of DSE at regulation 1(2)(a) covers both conventional (cathode-ray tube) display screens and other types such as liquid crystal or plasma displays used in flat-panel screens, touchscreens and other emerging technologies." Para 25 specifically addresses mobile phones, palmtops etc ( they don't say iPhone 'cos that's a tradename!) and Para 27/28 addresses home-working. Para 20 (d) mentions "portable systems not in prolonged use" as being exempt from the regulations. I assume that you are investigating RA's for those who are defined in Table 1 as "users"? The short answer used to be that DSE users are those whose DSE work was a significant proportion of their normal daily work but Table 1 goes into far more detail. They also give examples, which are pretty good, for deciding whether people are indeed users. So basically all your answers are there and, like Paul, I can't see what more you could want. This particular guidance is one of the best written bits of info around and a lot simpler than masses of other blurb I come across. If you are the employer there should be no difficulty, if not then just refer the employer to the downloadable guidance on the HSE website, http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l26.htm , it's generally the employers job to make RA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 DSE= Display Screen Equipment. Which I didn't know which probably means there a whole host of further red tape that. I should comply with. If I risk assessed everything and followed all updates to law I'd never get any work done. No really. It is such a burden to small business. /end of mini rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Maybe it's just me, but I'm very happy in blissful ignorance about things I simply don't wish to know about. The thought that small businesses are actually even doing risk assessments for day to day activities is something I can't even contemplate. When I have to do them, it's because somebody else insists on having them - I don't need/want them for what I do. I'm now on a total of 7 filing cabinet drawers for the things I have to do and keep, and the thought of considering the myriad of less major issues our Government seem to think we can afford or just have time to consider is something that I'm just not prepared to waste my time on. Perhaps we should start a topic that details regulations and legislation that somebody has spent time and public money on that nobody actually wants. These DSE regulations are just one more thing that few people are aware of, and seem to be there for the few cases where an individual has some issue, that can be blamed on something they had to do in the course of their work. Hazardous activities at work need regulation, so people who build skyscrapers, go down mines, work in demolition, or maybe defuse unexploded bombs get all my sympathy and support. Looking at a display screen, or typing on a computer don't. My wife had a serious eye problem when she was very young, and has regular eye checkups - she works with computer screens at work all day, every day - and these regulations should impact on her. She's never heard of them, yet her firm do have a policy on this kind of thing - they pay for her eye tests and glasses! They've been doing this for 30 years. Responsible employers don't need legislation. Irresponsible ones ignore it. We have so many namby pamby 'just in case' rules nowadays, it's no wonder we ignore most of them. Are we really saying that there is risk in typing on a keyboard and prodding a touch screen. Will we get a repetitive stress wotsit? I really get the impression that a very small number of people actually like regulations, legislation and standards. Am I the only one that has no interest in the latest updates to standards and regulations that I wasn't even aware existed? I watch those programmes on TV where they go and inspect kitchens - find cockroaches and years of neglect. Things that directly impact the lives of the people who eat there. Instead of shutting them down, they give them time to change, which they often don't. Then again they get more time. Then a paltry fine. I'll take my chances on a magistrate who has just fined somebody £50 for giving people food poisoning, after 3 warnings to not fine me too much for not having a risk assessment in the filing cabinet for my computer monitors. When the monitor police knock on the door, that's the time to move to a country with some kind of perspective! Rant over - almost sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Fair do's, Pete'n'Paul, there is a massive amount of legislation which makes an awful lot of work for people, the unfortunate thing is that it has been made law to try to persuade the "irresponsible" employer to treat people decently.HOWEVERAs far as the DSE regs are concerned the figures ARE significant with around 200,000 screen/keyboard related cases of RSI (repetitive strain injury) or more appropriately WRULD (work related upper limb disorder) every year according to TUC figures. I have an inkling that the number of people suffering means a lot less to business or government than the millions of sick days lost through keyboard related RSI. Worst case scenario being an employee's working life cut short or, from an employers point of view, a massive compensation bill, and they have been huge. £244,000 to a 28 year old Barclays employee in 2002 and £82,000 to one typist at HMRC quite a few years ago. http://www.rsi-solutions.co.uk/ DSE regs mean that your wife is entitled to specific eye tests, proper lighting, decent seating, adequate breaks, suitable hardware and software etc. etc. She may never have heard of them but her employer almost certainly has because it is the employers duty to comply not the employees and, due to the above figures, most employers do take it seriously. It may well be time to move to a country with some kind of perspective such as the EU countries that pay less regard to EU, not UK, directives than we do. Maybe to Spain where an employer threw a workers severed arm in a bin, cleaned the machine then carried on production as the victim was dumped 100 metres from the hospital. (28 May 2009, Rovira bakery, Valencia).See Rodericks comment in the nearby thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 is entitled to specific eye tests, proper lighting, decent seating, adequate breaks, suitable hardware and software etc. etc.And to me that is the basic stuff of being an employer. If you employee people, then you need to treat them well to ensure you can get the best from them, which isn't a view necessarily heald by every employer, hence the need for legislation I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinch Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 is entitled to specific eye tests, proper lighting, decent seating, adequate breaks, suitable hardware and software etc. etc.And to me that is the basic stuff of being an employer. If you employee people, then you need to treat them well to ensure you can get the best from them, which isn't a view necessarily heald by every employer, hence the need for legislation I guess. I'll second that... after years of spending far too much time working with computers for long periods I have a left hand little finger that, when I relax my hand, always jumps out looking for the control key. Similarly my right hand mouse clicking finger develops a life of its own when relaxed. Since I've worked for myself for as long as I can remember, I've only got myself to blame and I'm hardly going to report myself BUT we are starting to live in a more and more litigious society and its getting easier for employers to end up on the wrong side of a 'no win no fee' case. OK, so I've got a mild, if amusing, case of RSI but in skilled hands my symptoms could be made to sound a lot more sinister in a court. Its easy enough for disgruntled employees and legal creatures of the night to take full advantage of injury/harassment in the workplace claims and quite conceivable that ignoring legislation because it appears petty can prove the perfect evidence to cause employers major grief. I agree that a lot of legislation is a waste of space but we're stuck with it and as employers we should ignore it at our peril. Just my 0.02$ simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collism Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 If you are feeling brave have a look at Kevin Williams' excellent paper on why the compensation culture is a matter of perception rather then reality (an urban myth?). http://digitalcommons.shu.ac.uk/cgi/viewco...text=lrg_papers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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