Choosing the right stuff

[Munro]

Hi guys, I need some help in choosing a desk for my school. We have a budget of 10Gs for the desk.

 

We are not looking to purchase for about a year yet. Just get stuff planned, because it is a big project. Completely demolishing the stage/hall Walls, and extending, building a tech area.

 

We are looking for a good desk that is capable of running:

 

either 48 or 96 generics. Half with scrollers.

12 LED fixtures

8 Martin Macs (4 wash, 4 profiles)

 

I currently have a FatFrog, and I am keen to try something different.

 

I have also been asked, where the tech box should be placed. Do we just have a small desk at the back of the room? Or a full length balcony. That can be used as storage for other gear, leads/mics/ect? Or do we get a small box with a ladder up to it? Thanks.

Joe

[smalljoshua]

Ignoring the fact that you're a student for a minute.

 

If I'm honest, for that channel/fixture count, in a school, people are going to recommend a Leap Frog 96. There are other desks that will do the job but the Zero88 is going to be the easiest to get to grips with in a school. I know this is probably what you didn't want to hear, especially if you want a change of ways from the Fat Frog. The Leap Frog is similar, but sufficiently different to have a slight learning curve for some of the more advanced features.

 

Other desks that would handle that spec are along the lines of Chamsys MQ100. Jands Vista T2. Avo Tiger. All of these desks would do the job very well too. However, you need to think about in 3-4 years time, when you have left the school. Can you guarantee that there will be someone there that will know/want to use a complex desk? More than likely there will be someone who just wants to put some lights on for a school show.

 

I'm not going to comment on the moving lights in schools topic as that has been covered umpteen times.

 

Hopefully, with an installation/outlay of this size the school does/is going to employ a technician to look after all this kit.

 

You want to be somewhere so that the sound guy can hear what the audience hear. If you're having tiered seating, a full length balcony WITHOUT A PANE OF GLASS in between you and the audience would be good. If you're having a flat floor or slight rake, something about 2/3 of the way back and slightly off centre would work.

 

It may be worth pointing the member of staff toward this forum/topic as it may help them get an unbiased view of what works and what doesn't for installations.

 

Josh

[paulears]

Have you got the budget for these structural alterations? The price of the desk might be overshadowed by the alterations.

 

The trouble will be you have to build in contingency for products being discontinued and replaced with others that could be more. As for the location, well access and visibility is important, but with lighting inside a room is often best because you can make a noise during the shows, and during rehearsals, you just move it closer to the stage. Sound MUST be in the room, and if that gets done by a larger balcony, then lx can go there too.

[robhall3192]

Although we don'nt have massive of technical about 30 generics, and 2 RGB's. no scrollers. but the school still have invested in a balcony across the whole length of the school hall and raised to the top of the wall. however there is no raised seating so no need to have it so high. this also went with a new basic sound system.

however much you try advising those incharge over whats best in your opinion, the ultimate decision ended up with the head and the money spenders. Such as the access is up two very steep sets of stairs so impossible to carry equipment up and down on your own.

[chj]

Balcony for storage, as suggested above, does not seem a great idea unless it has great access unless it is just for cables and mics etc. You are extremely lucky to get getting what you are (the amount of fixtures along, never mind choosing all of this, the budget and the movingheads!!!).

 

Think about power too (including dimmers), 96 fixtures requires 8 dimmers, and therefore a lot of power.

 

Lighting

---------

Jands Vista as said above would be a good alternative to a Fat Frog, they are also easy to use because they are so visual. They require more "teaching" to get to grips with them, not so obvious as a frog and I suppose more setup.

Most of lighting is the setup anyway, the operation is relatively easy (and very easy with generics), dependant on what you do. You need to think about who will do it after you do and if they are willing to learn.

 

Also, are you going to have a mainly fixed setup? Apart from positioning etc, then if the lights are going to stay up then its fine, but otherwide you need storage space. Also, someone will need to know and be comfortable with moving stuff and setting it up when you leave.

 

Sound

--------

As millions of people say, you need to be in the room. Running off earphones or behind glass is hell. Of course, for sound based events you can move yourself into the room, although its so much easier to be in the room anyway.

 

 

 

Well I hope this helps. Most of it is just backing others opinions but its always good to know that people agree.

[smalljoshua]

Something else that has popped into my head. Have you though about access to the grid.

 

A local school venue (with a 350 seat auditorium) has a flexible mesh grid which you can walk on just below the lighting bars. You just walk on this grid and focus the lights through it. I haven't used it personally but have worked on shows in there and it is a very smart solution IMO. This might be more important than a massive number of generics/movers if you currently don't have grid access to focus.

 

I'll have a look to see what it's called and post a link. E2A Here's the Link

 

Josh

[chj]

Think I saw this at PLASA, looks interesting but it depends on like I said, the amount of moving/rerigging etc. that you do. Thanks for that link BTW it was interesting.

[the kid]

Tension grids are fun!

 

It is a slow day today at work, but really if your school has said to do all this they have a problem that some of that 10k should go to some one who knows.

 

I had an interview with a school in the summer that was being fitted by a well knowen company and several things were wrong with it before the build was finished, I work in a theatre where the tech will very happily say "there are many many ######ups" and that was dome by a pro company and pro architech.

 

A student doing the same, I dread to think how many innapropriate things would be put in.

 

either 48 or 96 generics. Half with scrollers.

12 LED fixtures

8 Martin Macs (4 wash, 4 profiles)

 

I currently have a FatFrog, and I am keen to try something different.

 

I have also been asked, where the tech box should be placed. Do we just have a small desk at the back of the room? Or a full length balcony. That can be used as storage for other gear, leads/mics/ect? Or do we get a small box with a ladder up to it? Thanks.

 

1) I have no idea but perhaps something like a Orb.

 

2) try ? with 10k? I think perhaps getting some demo's in the next year with teachers who will exist way beyond you would be a idea, and TRY them before BUY.

 

3) As some others say can it be afforded ? personally a gallery accross the top.

[chj]

When we tried to contact professional companies to come in and do it in our school, we were quoted massive amount, thousands for just small jobs. The reason why I said this was because it was related to the school and three companies seems evidence for this. If you are going to get a professional company, make sure you look at their quotation, and check up the prices they quote for any equipment. We got charged £1500 for a £1100 mixer.

[neild]

We have quite a large Slingco Cablenet grid in one of our halls, and it is fantastic. It literally eliminates the risk of falling from height, while still being able to work easily with the house rig. In an ideal world, this would make it a great product for schools.

 

It is, however, hugely expensive! Our span cost pushing on for nearly £1m, and that doesn't account for the fact our roof was already well suited to having it. - It effectively becomes a false ceiling which will reduce your room height unless you already have a large ceiling void.

 

Annual inspection doesn't come cheap either!!!

[chj]

From what neild said, I would never imagine something like that could be so expensive. I would say that it definitely isn't an option.

 

The problem is with schools in the health and safety for working at heights. We arn't allowed to use the ladder or scaff tower, and if we did have a cherry picker or vertical lift then I doubt we would be able to use them either.

 

What rigging bars do you have at the moment? Also are you actually buying the macs?

[tommulliner]

Ive heared that the Smartfade ML 24 96 is good. It can operate up to 24 fixtures, movers, LEDs, etc and 96 generics. I think there are models with more channels, but im not sure, somthing to look at. There are some youtube tutorials from ETC. the reason I mention it is that we're getting one this week. Hope you find what your looking for,

Tom.

[Munro]

Ive heared that the Smartfade ML 24 96 is good. It can operate up to 24 fixtures, movers, LEDs, etc and 96 generics. I think there are models with more channels, but im not sure, somthing to look at. There are some youtube tutorials from ETC. the reason I mention it is that we're getting one this week. Hope you find what your looking for,

Tom.

 

please report back on how you find it tom!

 

Yes, we probably will be buying the macs. Nothing is set in stone yet.

 

Thanks for your comments. I am a little short of time, so I will answer other questions another time

[rossmck]

the reason I mention it is that we're getting one this week.

 

Count me as another one that wants to hear how you find this board - we've

been looking at it but I've yet to find anyone with any real experience of one :(

[tommulliner]

I will let you know when Ive had a proper play with it. we have not had it yet though as for the postal strike. :D :D