dan slv-tech Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Im still experiimenting with expanding my LS9 to 48 channels using two cards in the rear of the desk.Im looking at a couple of pre amps but have a few considerations, and look to the friendly folk here to try an help me to see the wood for the trees. Currently contenders are: Behringer ADA8000 - Nice and cheap, its get the dreaded B name on it, how reliable are they, and for £147 are the pre amps much cop- I know theres literally a gain knog and a signal/peak LED and thats your lot, which to be honest thats pretty much all you do need, however it doesnt have a HPF, phase on it, but for that money it does seem a little good to be true, and I kind of want to get away from the el cheapo end, as you get what you pay for etc....how do the pre amps in this compare to the LS9 on board pres? ART Tubefire8- again looks a lovely unit,prices vary from £429 upto £549- looks solid, HPF,phase and has tube pre amps, and you can directly patch to the outputs without any in/out adat/firewire patch as per the ADA8000-has any one tried one? what do you think? got better metering on it. how do the pres compare to the LS9 ones? Studio projects SP828- only recently come across this one, looks quite nice again prices are almost £500, looks a bit more pro looking, specs arnt bad at all.- only down side is it has a power adapter, and no one really has stock in UK Focusrite octopre - this looks a nice unit- and has HPF, Phase and even compression on each channel- again prices are around £429- again down side is power adapter- how do these compare. my initial plan was to buy 2 units and put them at the stage end and run things like keyboards/ DI based units through them, theres enugh gain on the LS9 in the EQ section to play with-now im beginning to think wouldnt it be better to rack them at FOH in the playback/graphic rack then I have access to them- id need to work out a viable cabling solution that works with what I have, and I could have the power adapters in the rear of the rack.Initially if I were to be goig for the more expensive units id go for one at 1st, then when funds allow purchase a second.Im open to suggestions if the wiser have any better ideas. many thanks Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mervaka Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I wouldn't write the 'B' brand off just because of the name. I've had problems with them in the past, but I've also had problems with bigger name brands. I have an ADA8000, and it's always done exactly what it was designed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I've had four ADA8000s (making my DM1000 into a 48 channel device) for a bit over five years now and they just sit there and work--no problems at all to date. Audio-wise, I wouldn't describe them as "sweet sounding" but there's nothing particularly wrong with them. My main gripe is that, if you turn the gain right up, they become a bit noisy but it's very rare for me to need that amount of gain. I'd had them for more than two years before the first time I had to turn a channel up far enough to detect the problem. Frankly, I still keep my "money channels" on the Yamaha pre-amps and run chorus, instruments and line level sources through the ADA8000s. They've been fine used this way and excellent value for money. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHoward Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I use ADA8000s exactly as described above, although with an LS9 32 - with relation to your phase and HPF, shouldn't you still retain both those functions on the LS9 for those channels anyway? I do have to agree that the pre-amps are pretty noisy, and again I keep them to the lower-priority or lower-gain channels - mainly DIs and stereo feeds and the like. When it's all summed together 16 channels of that hiss can start to add up, but it's not too bad if you manage it properly. Also - you have to watch your clipping on them, as once they've been routed into the LS9 via ADAT, as as far as I can tell if it starts clipping on the Pre-amp you won't see it further down the line (once it's been routed via ADAT) like you would with the usual LS9 channels, so you need to either keep your eye on the boxes themselves or give them a listen to keep on top of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I have couple of ADA8000s too & agree ith all that's ben said above. One thing I'd add, is that it's difficult to mount the things neatly, as the analogue inputs are on the front. I've had racks set up in various ways over the last couple of years, and find either I can't get to the gain, or the cables are a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Right angle XLRs leading to a patch panel on the back of the rack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nid Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Right angle XLRs leading to a patch panel on the back of the rack?Exactly what I did... Pictured is my only rack that accompanies my LS9-16:Front view:http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c360/boniton/LS9-16014.jpg Back view:http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c360/boniton/LS9-16017.jpg Few points: My LS9-16 is fitted with the MY16-AT expansion card that provides the additional 16 input channels (as well as 16 Omni outputs) through ADAT/TOSLINK. So basically my 19" LS9-16 is now a full 32 channel board… ;) I found this configuration to best fit my budget and versatility needs. I only recently changed to Digital… but I think this setup will handle nicely the various gigs I do. The right angle Neutrik XLRs originally only alow positioning at 45 deg. steps. I added a notch in between existing two so that the connectors could line up and the wires fit nicely in the half U just under the units. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Hey! Thanks for that Nid! I got as far as the right angle XLR idea for my rack but settled for the standard 45 degree angle which wastes some extra rack real estate. I'll be getting my hack saw out when I get home! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parky58 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Expanding on Nid's expansion setup, I have used 2X Focusrite Octopres. This negated the expense of additional connectors as the sockets are all on the back. In addition there are line inputs on the front. I paid £229 apeice for them including the ADAT cards. The retailers are selling them off cheap at the moment to make way for the MK2 versions. http://www.sparxsound.co.uk/images/P1010329a.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlower Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Ok, so here are my thoughts.I currently own a Motu 8Pre, Presonus DigiMax D8 and Behringer ADA8000. I've also recently sold a Focusrite Octopre and an ART Tubefire. Behringer ADA8000 - Nice and cheap, its get the dreaded B name on it, how reliable are they, and for £147 are the pre amps much cop- I know theres literally a gain knog and a signal/peak LED and thats your lot, which to be honest thats pretty much all you do need, however it doesnt have a HPF, phase on it, but for that money it does seem a little good to be true, and I kind of want to get away from the el cheapo end, as you get what you pay for etc....how do the pre amps in this compare to the LS9 on board pres? I am a fan of the LS9 but not the premps. I'd say the ADA8000 aren't quiet as good, but great value. One major issue I've had with the ADA8000 is the lack of pads on the channels. It depending on your use, but in the next few months I'll replace the ADA8000 purely for this reason. ART Tubefire8- again looks a lovely unit,prices vary from £429 upto £549- looks solid, HPF,phase and has tube pre amps, and you can directly patch to the outputs without any in/out adat/firewire patch as per the ADA8000-has any one tried one? what do you think? got better metering on it. how do the pres compare to the LS9 ones? I must say they are brilliant! ART valve preamps are such good value. I used them all the time, and they always sounded good. I once did a live recording of an acoustic act with feeds from the direct outs of the mixing console, and splits of the channels going to my tubefire. I prefered the sound of the tubefire preamps. The mixing console was the Midas H3000!I recenty sold my Tubefire however purely due to convenience. The thing is big and heavy, and I'm currently making my stuff "more portable".The whole lack of power supply is a big bonus. Focusrite octopre - this looks a nice unit- and has HPF, Phase and even compression on each channel- again prices are around £429- again down side is power adapter- how do these compare.Are you confusing the Octopre and Octopre LE? The Octopre has HPF/phase/comp but is powered via 13a IEC. The LE version has a lot less features and is powered via an external power adaptor. I owned the Octopre. Sold it though as, like the ART Tubefire, it is big and heavy. Not portable enough for me.Great sounding however. In fact the best set of preamps I've owned. One issue I had with it however was the layout of the front panel. I mainly used it in dim/dark lighting conditions and the compressor pots next to the gain pots, with the 8 channels across two rows really bugged me. I could never quickly adjust a level. I'd have to find my torch first. my initial plan was to buy 2 units and put them at the stage end and run things like keyboards/ DI based units through them, theres enugh gain on the LS9 in the EQ section to play with-now im beginning to think wouldnt it be better to rack them at FOH in the playback/graphic rack then I have access to them- id need to work out a viable cabling solution that works with what I have, and I could have the power adapters in the rear of the rack. I would most definitely have them at FOH. Initially if I were to be goig for the more expensive units id go for one at 1st, then when funds allow purchase a second. Also look into the Presonus stuff. I've been very impressed by their stuff recently.I got my ADA8000 on ebay for around £80, so you could get them to start then upgrade at a later date? Buying secondhand you won't be loosing much money (if any). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHoward Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I reckon there'd be enough people to buy up another ADA8000 at the right price, myself included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan slv-tech Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 After much deliberation and consideration ive gone for 2 of the focusrite octopre LE's with an MY16AT.Got them for £249 each with the adat card fitted.Reasons I went for them: *Lighter than other units I was looking at (Octopre,Art Tubefire8)*Well Priced/vs specification*Has the ability to handle Line levels too, albeit from the front*Can monitor a channel with a full meter.*Clutter free at the front (well at least till you start plugging jackplugs in the front) So thanks to everyone who made suggestions, they were all read and digested, units arrive today and they get used hopefully tonight on a job if I can get them installed/working in time before I leave.So will give an update Mon/tues after use. Thanks Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackerr Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 After much deliberation and consideration ive gone for 2 of the focusrite octopre LE's with an MY16AT.Got them for £249 each with the adat card fitted. Don't forget to hook up the WC to keep them clocked to the console. With 2 independent ADAT sources you cannot use the ADAT input to clock the console, all 3 devices must be kept in sync. I assume the WC inputs of the Octopre are unterminated, which means you will need a 75Ω (video) BNC cable from the WC out of the console to a BNC "T" on the WC input of the first Octopre, and another short cable to a "T" on the 2nd Octopre, and a 75Ω terminator on the other side of the last "T". You must have only 1 termination on the line, and it should be at the last device in the chain. Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmyP1955 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Most if not all affordable tube preamps use a "starved" tube configuration. This is for adding "character", not for providing neutral audio. I'd rather listen to the "B". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan slv-tech Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Don't forget to hook up the WC to keep them clocked to the console. With 2 independent ADAT sources you cannot use the ADAT input to clock the console, all 3 devices must be kept in sync. I assume the WC inputs of the Octopre are unterminated, which means you will need a 75Ω (video) BNC cable from the WC out of the console to a BNC "T" on the WC input of the first Octopre, and another short cable to a "T" on the 2nd Octopre, and a 75Ω terminator on the other side of the last "T". You must have only 1 termination on the line, and it should be at the last device in the chain. Sorry to clarify on the back of the octorpeLE there is word clock in and out on BNC- so I need a RG59 from WC out on LS9 to the 1st octorpreLE, then come out of the out to the in of the 2nd unit then put a 75ohm terminator on the WC out of the 2nd unit? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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