LJS Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Hey Everyone, First time post and I'm sure this has been discussed until the cows come home - but nothing wrong with that! I help in a theatre that is looking to buy a new lighting desk, the Head technition and myself have looked in to a few options but I thought I might get some more! Currently we run off a Zero 88 Frog. We run around 70 generic lamps, have recently purchased and run a series of LED pars, as well as running 8 intelligent lights. The new desk will need a minimum 250 channels but more is better as we already run 48 Dimmer channels and are looking to upgrade. Heres the Kicker - It needs to be simple enough for students to learn to use as we are a teaching college! So far the favortie is ETC Element (Element 60 console with 20 dedicated submaster faders) So what do you think the best board for us would be? Any suggestions welcomed! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 How much do you have in the budget. When people ask this question the usual result will be the students will recommend computer based systems running with DMX dongles. The more experienced people on the forum will say this is a bad idea, and suggest ETC, Chamsys and lots of others. If you're using it for training, then two things matter. Who will be doing the training? If it is you and the technician then whatever you are comfortable and knowledgeable on is important. My worry would be that you could buy anything, learn it, and then use it for training. What would this training be? If you intend training for the industry, then what the industry use is important. Nowadays, now that Strand threw in the towel, there isn't really an industry standard any longer - so training has to be on transferable skills. So you teach process, not specifics to an individual make. Nowadays desks tend to have common facilities, with different names, but broadly similar purposes. So the usual way is to look at typical tasks that lighting people are faced with, then teach how to solve them. The method in doing this on a Chamsys, for example, is broadly similar to a few others, although exact button pushing sequence is different. So I don't think there is a specific make recommendation we could all agree on. There are some desks in the YES list, and some in the NO list - but in general, all the yes ones have something going for them, and none are that hard to master. So - questions.BudgetWhat type of productions/events Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJS Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Budget I believe is around 4,500 inclusive of everything inc. delivery. The Element fits in to this budget along with a touchscreen moniter. Equipment - a variety of generics, LEDs and Inteligent lights and with a future budget to upgrade the lighting. (Sorry about the lack of specifics) Events wise we are a student theatre but we also get in professional theatre companies on an often occasion. The training is basic tech training and some people wish to look further in to lighting. Both myself and the head technician would be providing the training so I see what you mean about any board being suitable for training, but from seeing the element in action, it shows the control path as you type it out which helps troubleshoot as you teach. Thanks for the response, it gives me more food for thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Hi and welcome!!! :D At college we use the Chamsys system, I am not sure how much it would cost but it is a simple and a good quality system and well worth the money.Maybe ETC, I havnt used any of these lighting desks but know people who have and they have said they are great desks.What ever you decide to buy good luck and I hope you find one that fits your needs!!! :up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savage1 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I know somebody is keeping count of how many posts before Avo so I mightas well suggest a Pearl Tiger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 As a student, I'd like to point out how easy I found the Leapfrog 96 was to learn to use. Especially with my previous use of a Frog. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bobinski Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Hi and welcome!!! :D At college we use the Chamsys system, I am not sure how much it would cost but it is a simple and a good quality system and well worth the money.Maybe ETC, I havnt used any of these lighting desks but know people who have and they have said they are great desks.What ever you decide to buy good luck and I hope you find one that fits your needs!!! :up: If you have a spare 11 to 12K kicking around, go for the chamsys magicq 100. I'll buy three!!!!!???? :D Or even a 300, a mere snip at 17K+. That means I can only have two! Bu**er! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerJonny Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 it may be worthwhile looking at what other local, professional venues and local hire companies are using. If one manufacturer sticks out, then buy a desk from that manufacturer or another similar to it. This way, when people move on from you out into the "real world" (not saying you aren't real world, but you describe yourself as a student theatre :D ) your students will be familiar with the systems used in the area and may therefore find it easier to get work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I suspect that with the budget, I too rather like the Chamsys, although after having done a bit of Googling, the ETC does seem pitched at a fairly empty price area. Looking at some of the booth demos people have stuck around the net, superficially it would be fairly student friendly. Single playback isn't too much of a snag - as we had single playback for a very long time, and it does seem to have workarounds for those times when two or more cues need running. The trouble is simply that you'd be one of the pioneers, and this control might be long lasting and a new standard, or nobody may buy it, and it gets discontinued very quickly! It's fair to say that schools and colleges do seem to love Zero 88 controls, and their students don't seem to have problems when they move on to controls more commonly found in larger venues. They do, however, constantly recommend them but due to the quantities around, I'm never sure if it's weight of numbers and some canny marketing by Zero 88 that have made these so popular. They do a good job, based on what people have told me, and they certainly give value for money on a feature vs cost basis. Moving up is difficult, as there is a gap in the above two grand, but below eight grand market. The ETC looks pretty ok, price wise for features - but adding touch screens to make use of the mouse rarer will put up the price quite a bit, won't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Budget I believe is around 4,500 inclusive of everything inc. delivery. As your profile doesn't give a location (it would be useful if you could fill that in, btw) we don't know if this is GBP, EUR, USD, Aus$ or something else. Nevertheless, I think, from what I've seen of it, that the Element seems like a good choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I've put (admitedly older) ETC desks into two venues that have a wide range of user ability. They are very easy to pick up, yet capable of doing most things asked of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wol Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Budget I believe is around 4,500 inclusive of everything inc. delivery. If you have a spare 11 to 12K kicking around, go for the chamsys magicq 100. I'll buy three!!!!!???? :D Or even a 300, a mere snip at 17K+. That means I can only have two! Bu**er! The price for an MQ50 is around about the £4500 mark as far as I know, so that should be within your price range if you did decide to go for the ChamSys route. Of course, delivery charges will differ dependent on where you are in the world so you'd have to check that but I don't invisige it to be that expensive. The MQ50 is a standalone unit so only needs a monitor plugged in the back of it rather than a PC solution where you require an external PC. It also has four DMX outputs straight out of the back, so is capable of running the sort of size rig you have 'out of the box'. The MagicQ software which it runs is also freely downloadable, so you can try it yourself first to see whether you get on with the system, and also means that students could go off in their own time and learn how to use the software which might help from the teaching point of view, and getting offline programming done in case time is stretched as it is a college! Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Congo Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Another easy to learn desk that would just about fit with in your budget would be a Jands Vista S3 and 512 chan dongle I am sure AC would do you a demo, Oh there is no best Lighting Desk, each does different things in a different way, Its about finding one that works for your logic and programming style, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Theres also the cheapskate chamsys route,1 asus all in 1 pc,complete with built in touch screen and a basic fader wing,should get you a few pennys change from a grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechHead Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Hey Everyone, First time post and I'm sure this has been discussed until the cows come home - but nothing wrong with that! So what do you think the best board for us would be? Any suggestions welcomed! :D I would sugest looking at the Robe 1024 we just got one and its awesome value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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