Rigging safely in school

[dave1022]

After stage managing school productions for two years, I have now moved on to 'Head technician' since the two people that used to do the technician stuff have now left school for university. They used a scaffolding that didn't look terribly safe to me, and this eventually led to a health and safety inspection deeming the scaffolding unsafe for under 18s. To replace this my school bought a hydraulic cherry picker, that could be brought into the school hall running on an electric supply so I could rig/focus the lights in the hall. However, when the school tried to fit the cherry picker in through the hall doors, it didn't fit. This consequently means waiting until after next summer (so the doors can be widened) to have use of the cherry picker.

 

In the meantime, the annual drama production is taking place. This requires the lifting several source fours up to a height of around 8m, rigging and focusing them. Because I am the only person in the school who knows how stage lighting works, I have to be up there so I can focus them/put gels in them/put gobos in them etc. myself.

 

So here's a summary:

 

I am 16 (17 by the time the production comes round) and living in the North West of England.

I need a way of raising lights 8m and accessing them safely.

I have no formal training in anything really. All my knowledge comes from volunteering in a local amateur theatre.

 

And here are my questions:

 

Should I (at 17) be rigging lights that are that high or is it too unsafe for me?

How much would hiring (or possibly buying) a safe method of rigging cost?

Do I need any formal training?

Would using a hydraulic cherry picker be safe for me?

 

 

All help appreciated,

David

[paulears]

It's always me who has to answer these things - or at least take the flack for what comes next.

 

None of this is your problem, it's the school's. If the person who is responsible for you thinks you are competent to to it, then there isn't a specific 'law' that says you can't.

 

Should I (at 17) be rigging lights that are that high or is it too unsafe for me?

If you have the equipment to allow you to do it safely, why not? Again, it's up to your teacher/technician - whoever is in charge, and therefore responsible for your safety. If you are dangerous, they won't let you - if you're competent, they may - but it is their call.

How much would hiring (or possibly buying) a safe method of rigging cost?

Depends on what the powers that be decide you need - you have a cherry picker (no doubt bought because the caretakers fancied it for general repairs - certainly not the most handy thing to buy just for your high bars

Do I need any formal training?

This is what school is for. If they decide you need training, they sort it out.

Would using a hydraulic cherry picker be safe for me?

I find it doubtful schools have the skills in house to train you on it. After all, they will need training themselves, won't they? Cherry pickers are expensive, and if used stupidly are not as safe as many other devices. I personally a few years ago, got simply 'given' a cherry picker and left to sort it myself. Stupidly, before I knew what I know now, I decided I could do it safely. I was very wrong. Scared me to death!

 

If you, as a student get put in positions where your safety becomes an issue - it is NOT your job to do anything dangerous, possibly dangerous, or even probably dangerous. At 17, you are legally expected to be responsible for your own safety to some degree - but it is your school's job to keep you undamaged.

 

Your Head Technician title means zilch, I'm afraid. You are a student and your teachers or technicians are responsible for your safety. It's really up to them.

 

Maybe they'll send you on a course, to get a magic piece of paper - but they'll still need to be there, supervising you, even if you have been on the course and they have not. If they need the lights focused, they'll find a way to get it done that they can sleep soundly with. This might mean you, but frankly - if I was your teacher, I'd go on the course myself, keeping the skills in school for years rather than waste the money on a student who will be gone in just a few months!

 

 

I'd bet that they have already decided what is going to happen - after all, spending all that money without measuring a doorway will have made the powers that be very aware of how good your department is at planning!

[dave1022]

First of all, I certainly won't be giving anyone any flack because chances are that most people here are much older and more experienced than me.

 

Depends on what the powers that be decide you need - you have a cherry picker (no doubt bought because the caretakers fancied it for general repairs - certainly not the most handy thing to buy just for your high bars

 

Haha, nice guess. My school certainly wouldn't spend that much money on the drama department!

 

Your Head Technician title means zilch, I'm afraid.

 

I only said 'Head technician' as a kind of way of summing up what I do. I have no official title, no official badge or certificate that says I'm allowed to touch technician stuff and there's nothing saying I have to do anything. I do what I do out of the passion I have for technical theatre and the enjoyment I get out of it.

 

If they need the lights focused, they'll find a way to get it done that they can sleep soundly with.

 

The trouble is if anyone needs the lights focused I am expected to do it. I found out about an event that needed a PA system only a day in advance, so I had to get something sorted quickly. I think you may have made me realise that the teachers at my school take what I do totally for granted. Because what I do 'just happens' in their eyes, none of the teachers appreciate the effort I have to put in to light or give sound to an event.

 

Thanks for the advice, and I'll take the issue up with the teachers who expect some light or sound for their events, and the health and safety officer in my school. Hopefully I'll come to some resolution, though at the moment it isn't looking great :blink:

 

Thanks again,

David

[tokm]

To replace this my school bought a hydraulic cherry picker, that could be brought into the school hall running on an electric supply so I could rig/focus the lights in the hall. However, when the school tried to fit the cherry picker in through the hall doors, it didn't fit. This consequently means waiting until after next summer (so the doors can be widened) to have use of the cherry picker.

:s How big is your picker if it can't fit through school hall doors.. Don't think I've ever been any any 'hall' that doesn't have at least one set of double doors and surely your pickers no wider than two double doors!

 

But anyway... :blink: they wouldn't let you use the dodgy old scaff tower, so instead of buying a new one (thus hopefully safer..), they bought something that costs 10x more, requires formal training (IPAF) to use and requires a floor suitable to hold its weight (surprising how few floors/stages can hold near enough a tonne of picker (which yours must be if your doorways need widening!). Wondered where all my taxes went, now I know! I think Paul's got it right, caretakers wanted a toy and/or some bureaucrat RA'd the problem and poorly decided this was the right option then didn't bother do a well enough in-depth look at what comes with owning/using a picker.

 

My other point..

'Because I am the only person in the school who knows how stage lighting works, I have to be up there so I can focus them/put gels in them/put gobos in them etc. myself.'

How very arrogant of you! It takes all of 5 minutes to teach someone how to focus (well enough for a school production anyway..) and gel/gobo a S4. Failing that, stick the gel and gobo in the fixture before it goes up in the air like any normal person.

 

If your that bothered about the whole situation, get someone who doesn't mind doing that sort of thing to do it instead. Perhaps also invest in a rope & pulley to save you having to take the lights up the ladder.

 

the trouble is if anyone needs the lights focused I am expected to do it.

The thing to remember is (and it know its a bit patronising) is your a student.. Your really not expected, expected to do it.. If you were employed however, that'd be different, but again if you were employed, the situation wouldn't likely be what it is. Just keep it short n sweet with the teachers, tell them the problem and possible solutions that you've researched/looked at and leave it with them to sort. If nothing gets sorted, you have an easy job on show day.. 'Why aren't there any lights focused' from the teacher, your reply 'Because I can't for ...... reasons. As discussed prior!'

 

Sorry it always seems to you always be you who has to answer these posts Paul. Seems like your the only one with any patience left to deal with them :blink:

 

T

[rossmck]

You mention you volunteer in a local amateur theatre, perhaps their Head LX (or similar position) would be willing to lend a hand with your production? I know of a school that was lucky enough to be in a similar position where a former pupil, now working in the industry, was able to assist with hanging and focussing lights.

 

I don't normally reply to these "im a [insert title here] in a School" because, frankly, not that long ago I was in a similar position. We were lucky enough to have a Tallescope and a Zarges (as well as the obligatory ropey scaffold tower that every school seems to have) and were allowed to work on the rig - there was no formal training involved however the staff responsible believed us to be competent in working at height (so, had anything gone wrong they'd have had a lot of questions to answer)

 

The thing that does strike me about your (first) post (welcome by the way) is that you're thinking of these things first which shows that you're probably a considerably more responsible individual than many :blink:

 

Paul has already given excellent answers to the questions you've asked. To throw in "my two cents" if you know what you're doing and can safely rig lights at (particularly if you work in a theatre from time to time at the moment) then it should make no difference whether the lights are 2m or 8m above the ground as long as you can access them safely.

 

I have now got the appropriate piece of paper that says I can operate a cherry picker ;) - but before then (shortly after leaving school) I had the opportunity to use one and was given a short induction by a qualified individual on site and they considered that satisfactory. This was a much larger (diesel) cherry picker than I imagine you have in your school so I doubt, personally, that operating one is something you'd be unable to do - but as always it's up to them.

 

Best of luck with your show :blink:

 

But anyway... they wouldn't let you use the dodgy old scaff tower, so instead of buying a new one (thus hopefully safer..), they bought something that costs 10x more, requires formal training (IPAF) to use and requires a floor suitable to hold its weight ... caretakers wanted a toy and/or some bureaucrat RA'd the problem and poorly decided this was the right option then didn't bother do a well enough in-depth look at what comes with owning/using a picker.

 

Think you hit the nail on the head there but in this case it's at least not the OP at fault ;)

[paulears]

In my humble opinion, the best way to get things sorted is to be a little crafty. Drop a few comments into conversations when they're talking about the event. "That would be really good, but it's a shame we won't be able to do that because of that daft cherry picker......" or maybe "if we're hiring in something to get up to the lights, where will we keep it during the show?" or "Do you know who's coming in to focus the lights? I might know them"

 

None of these tactics should come across in the wrong way, but might make them think about something (like you) that is taken for granted.

 

Teachers always have a hidden agenda that the students rarely know about. All sorts of things going on that you probably are not aware of - and it's really often a good move to let them approach you, rather than the other way around. If they have to ask, what you do is genuinely appreciated. If you volunteer, any issues that happen later get blamed on your enthusiasm.

 

Best of luck.

P

[dave1022]

:s How big is your picker if it can't fit through school hall doors.. Don't think I've ever been any any 'hall' that doesn't have at least one set of double doors and surely your pickers no wider than two double doors!

 

It's a pretty big picker, the hall does have double doors, but not ones that open up very widely.

 

But anyway... blink.gif they wouldn't let you use the dodgy old scaff tower, so instead of buying a new one (thus hopefully safer..), they bought something that costs 10x more, requires formal training (IPAF) to use and requires a floor suitable to hold its weight (surprising how few floors/stages can hold near enough a tonne of picker (which yours must be if your doorways need widening!)

 

The picker is going on a solid floor that has been layed on top of concrete. Apparently some of the reasoning behind a cherry picker instead of a scissor lift (which I think would be much better) is that we can actually use it to rig lights on stage without having the actual picker on stage.

 

How very arrogant of you! It takes all of 5 minutes to teach someone how to focus (well enough for a school production anyway..) and gel/gobo a S4. Failing that, stick the gel and gobo in the fixture before it goes up in the air like any normal person.

 

Thanks for pointing that out for me :blink:. I'm sorry if I appear to be arrogant at all, but I'm just trying to sort things out and half the time I won't know best so feel free to point it out to me.

 

The thing to remember is (and it know its a bit patronising) is your a student.. If nothing gets sorted, you have an easy job on show day.. 'Why aren't there any lights focused' from the teacher, your reply 'Because I can't for ...... reasons. As discussed prior!'

 

Thanks for pointing that out to me too. It's all so problematic trying to get anything sorted sometimes that I think about just leaving it and not turning up on the night.

 

You mention you volunteer in a local amateur theatre, perhaps their Head LX (or similar position) would be willing to lend a hand with your production? I know of a school that was lucky enough to be in a similar position where a former pupil, now working in the industry, was able to assist with hanging and focussing lights.

 

That's a very good point. If anything that I can't do needs doing, I'm kinda lucky cause the guy who used to do what I do went to Manchster Uni, so is still quite close if I need any help.

 

I doubt, personally, that operating one is something you'd be unable to do - but as always it's up to them.

 

I'm not expecting to actually operate it, I'm just expecting to be able to go up there with whoever is operating it to rig the lights personally. However, now it's been pointed out to me that generally speaking I don't need to be up there personally then I guess I wouldn't need to even go near it.

 

In my humble opinion, the best way to get things sorted is to be a little crafty

 

That's certainly something I've learnt in the few months that I've been doing what I do at school ;)

 

Thanks a lot for all the reply and all the good lucks :blink:,

David

[Blaize110]

the trouble is if anyone needs the lights focused I am expected to do it.

The thing to remember is (and it know its a bit patronising) is your a student.. Your really not expected, expected to do it..

 

I am in a similar situation at my school. While students are not expected under any job description to do this, if you are "The guy who does the lights", the majority of staff will come to you in expectation of you being able to sort things for their events.

 

 

At the moment we have a problem because our back bar can only be reached by a tallescope (because of the basket overhang), however one member of staff doesn't like the use of the tallescope and would like to see it phased out. In the end it has come down to "we cant rig fully without it" and we've just left it with the school to either reassess its use or find an alternative.

 

Getting this across is hard though because it is difficult for a student to go making direct demands of members of staff, however you need to make it clear that, through no fault of your own, the rigging cant happen unless something is sorted. I think the best thing to do is, like paulears said, is to make sure you try and bring up the subject in conversation and make people aware that way.

 

EDIT: spag

[gareth]

Because I am the only person in the school who knows how stage lighting works, I have to be up there so I can focus them ... if anyone needs the lights focused I am expected to do it ... I had to get something sorted quickly ... the effort I have to put in

That's the thing, Dave - as others have pointed out, you don't *have* to do anything at all. The fact that you've chosen to, up until now, is neither here nor there - you have no responsibility to see that all these things get done, that's the responsibility of the staff at the school and the people who organise all the events. I think you might be right in saying that it sounds as though they're taking you for granted - what would they do if you were ill, or had exams, or were away from school on a field trip, or something like that? Simple, really - they'd get someone else to do it. It's true that the person they found instead may not be quite so knowledgeable as you are, and as such the way things got done may well be somewhat ropey and the end results may not be as good. But they'd get done - and it's only a school, so to be honest would anyone really care that much?

 

You've said yourself that on occasions you've wondered why you bother, and that you've been tempted to simply walk away from it. Nothing in life is worth putting yourself through that much stress and grief when you don't actually *have* to. If you say 'no' to them once in a while, because you don't have the time or the inclination to immerse yourself in yet another school production which will eat away all your free time for weeks to come, what will actually happen? You won't lose money, you won't be in breach of any contract, you won't get sacked from a job, you won't fail any exams, you won't get thrown out of the school - all that'll happen is that you'll have one less stress-inducing thing to deal with in your life. I wish someone had given me this same advice years ago, when I used to care too much.

[simschr]

Because I am the only person in the school who knows how stage lighting works, I have to be up there so I can focus them ... if anyone needs the lights focused I am expected to do it ... I had to get something sorted quickly ... the effort I have to put in

 

Although it may have sounded arrogant, I'm sure Dave has tried to get others involved, but if there's no-one else that wants to do it, I'm sure he feels compelled to do it. Maybe guilt comes into play? "Oh if you can't help us with the lighting we won't be able to do the show." Even although it isn't his responsibility in writing, in reality it is his social responsibility.

 

Chris

[paulears]

Personally, I rather like standing on the ground directing other people by up down left right etc etc. I know quite a few successful lighting designers who hate getting dirty.

 

Doing it yourself is something I do feel strongly about. I've tried my hardest to ensure that schools who teach lighting cannot get away with doing lighting from the ground, with somebody else up in the air/on the ladder/on the lift doing the focussing. It's of no use whatsoever if you want a job in this industry. "Can you focus a profile?" - er well, no, but I know how to tell others to do it!

[gareth]

"Oh if you can't help us with the lighting we won't be able to do the show."

"Oh, what a pity. But your problem, not mine."

 

it is his social responsibility

Rubbish.

Social responsibility is an ethical or ideological theory that an entity whether it is a government, corporation, organization or individual has a responsibility to society.

A schoolkid feeling coerced into getting involved in their school's show despite not really wanting to, just because they're being made to feel guilty about having the balls to say 'no' - doesn't really count, does it?

[kerry davies]

Hi Dave and welcome, nice to come across a younger person discussing reasonably and not arguing. Paul, and others, are on the button, as usual, but the topic seems to have morphed into the nitty gritty of "showstop".

 

No show is ever worth the safety and well-being of an individual and some teachers appear to have a limited understanding of this fact. The not-so-hidden agendas of a focus on ego, pass-rates and budgets can bury the reality of what amounts to the emotional blackmail of vulnerable people. I have seen school pupils rigging and focussing on step ladders that should have been condemned which were themselves balanced on top of two relatively flimsy tables. I have seen professional touring companies throw faulty ladders in skips only for the head of drama to bring them back in because he did not want to buy new.

 

In both instances I had to disappoint students and staff and call a halt to proceedings, the latter resulted in brand new Zarges and student training, but shows were postponed in both cases. Eventually both sets of students gained credit for H&S awareness and were better off but it hurt quite a few, including myself, in the short term. I know how much investment young people make into these things, God bless them for it, but my own and the schools first duty is to their welfare. When the powers that be don't take subtle hints or leading questions then the only thing to do is say; sorry, no can do, not my fault. After all they haven't exactly covered themselves in sensible medals by their purchasing abilities!

[Bobbsy]

A schoolkid feeling coerced into getting involved in their school's show despite not really wanting to, just because they're being made to feel guilty about having the balls to say 'no' - doesn't really count, does it?

 

No, it doesn't really count but I can see why the poor kids start to feel this way. Having seen the great pressure (implied and explicit) put on "the Tech Club" or whatever a school decides to call it, I can fully understand why so many "student technicians" feel caught between a rock and a hard place. All too often teachers have no real appreciation of what's involved in lighting and sound but expect it to be done despite not providing any support (and sometimes actively throwing up obstacles). A few years back when my son was still in school, I overheard a student being publicly lambasted for "the worst lighting this school has ever had" by the same teacher who refused to let them access any of the lights for focussing and gelling.

 

These pressures are no excuse for ignoring safety issues--but I fully understand the pressures that students are under. It takes a lot of maturity to say "no" to an authority figure like a teacher. As usual Paulears has offered some very practical "real world" (or, at least, "real school world") advice.

 

Bob

[dave1022]

I think you might be right in saying that it sounds as though they're taking you for granted - what would they do if you were ill, or had exams, or were away from school on a field trip, or something like that? Simple, really - they'd get someone else to do it.

One of the problems is that they couldn't get someone else to do it. I was the only student in my school who knew anything about technical theatre, and I suppose my school has been lucky that I've been able to be in for all the events so far. I now have someone else who is helping me (who I've trained) so eventually I think that they will be able to do events on their own.

 

Doing it yourself is something I do feel strongly about. I've tried my hardest to ensure that schools who teach lighting cannot get away with doing lighting from the ground, with somebody else up in the air/on the ladder/on the lift doing the focussing. It's of no use whatsoever if you want a job in this industry. "Can you focus a profile?" - er well, no, but I know how to tell others to do it!

 

I think that's a very valid point, but since I focus lights at my local theatre I know how to do it. Luckily the FOH bar there is only about 3m in the air, so an A-frame ladder suffices.

 

it is his social responsibility

Rubbish.

 

Though that isn't literally correct, I think I know what the poster was trying to get across. Though it isn't written down anywhere, I am expected to do lighting and sound, and I am more than happy with this expectation as long as I am treated with respect and I have what I need to get on with the job.

 

A schoolkid feeling coerced into getting involved in their school's show despite not really wanting to, just because they're being made to feel guilty about having the balls to say 'no' - doesn't really count, does it?

 

And I'm definately not getting coerced into doing anything. I have the balls to say no if things get out of hand.

 

Thanks once again for all your wonderful replies and advice ,

David