Time Code Avolites Pearl to Audio?

[TomTom]

Hi,

 

I am running a dance show, the show will have alot of lighting cues that need to be triggered during each track. I am using an avolites Pearl 2004 and was thinking of creating all my chases etc and programming a script file for each track in the show. I would then load up the required script file and trigger it to start on a MIDI Time code using an external clock which I assume is over the MIDI ports.

 

I have a laptop with an Edirol UA-4FX sound card which would be used on the show for both audio out from the PC and MIDI messages. What I am stuck with is finding a piece of software (preferably free) that can be used to load each track of the show and when play is hit start the MIDI Time Code from 00:00:00 (hours:mins:secs) so that the script file begins to run.

 

Any ideas on software? or any other way to automate the show using the pearl.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Tom

[gyro_gearloose]

You say each track will start when "Play" is hit. Why not just hit the "Go" button for each sequence at the same time? (Or whatever button press will trigger the sequence. I'm not really a Pearl user.)

[TomTom]

You say each track will start when "Play" is hit. Why not just hit the "Go" button for each sequence at the same time? (Or whatever button press will trigger the sequence. I'm not really a Pearl user.)

 

The lighting needs to be synchronised exactly to the song though... and im never going to be able to get the soundie to hit play at the same time as me.... thats why I was thinking I could control both with a laptop and have both synced together?

[TomHoward]

We do something very similar using a Mac running QLab - we run the audio out of QLab, and then rather than sync'ing to MIDI Time Code, we use MIDI triggers (also out of QLab) at defined time points in the track to load the next sequence.

[TomTom]

We do something very similar using a Mac running QLab - we run the audio out of QLab, and then rather than sync'ing to MIDI Time Code, we use MIDI triggers (also out of QLab) at defined time points in the track to load the next sequence.

 

 

Looked at Qlab... but its Mac only isnt it? shame I dont have a Mac... time for a change I think. But for now is there any similar software that runs on a PC? (preferably free)

[dbuckley]

Don't know of a free solution.

 

Just about every music sequencing package out there will both generate timecode and play back audio tracks. Some show control products will, but some of these generate LTC (audio timecode) which you'll need to convert to MTC so an option to avoid if possible.

 

You could beg / rent / steal a hard disk recorder - even entry level products (eg Fostex VF80) can generate MTC, though many lower end prodcts wont chase it, but thats not something you need.

 

Advice - dont start every track at 00:00:00:00 - start them at intervals apart, so that there is never any confusion about which track we are playing.

[TomTom]

Don't know of a free solution.

 

Just about every music sequencing package out there will both generate timecode and play back audio tracks. Some show control products will, but some of these generate LTC (audio timecode) which you'll need to convert to MTC so an option to avoid if possible.

 

You could beg / rent / steal a hard disk recorder - even entry level products (eg Fostex VF80) can generate MTC, though many lower end prodcts wont chase it, but thats not something you need.

 

Advice - dont start every track at 00:00:00:00 - start them at intervals apart, so that there is never any confusion about which track we are playing.

 

Cheers for the advice... are you farmiliar with the pearl? as im led to believe I am going to create a script file for each track of the show.... which will start at 00:00:00:00. Then load up the needed file.... load up the track on HDD recorder or computer and hit play... any other suggestions?

[Joe Bleasdale]

00:00:00:00. Then load up the needed file.... load up the track on HDD recorder or computer and hit play... any other suggestions?

 

I would usually start the time code at a little after 0... not 0 bang on due to the fact that if you want to put a cue in before the first cue... once the timecode is synced... you cant. (without re-syncing).

 

Just a suggestion...

 

Best,

[Tomo]

Also, never, ever put a cue in the first few seconds of running timecode if that timecode will *ever* be sent out of the generating machine into another.

 

SMPTE LTC and MIDI timecode require some preroll to ensure a good sync - MTC doesn't send much information each frame, so the receiver can't know the hours for a while, the minutes for less than that, but does know the frame number immediately.

Generated SMPTE LTC can often work with only four or five seconds of preroll, but it is still bad practice to have such a short preroll. VITC is the only timecode that can be found with zero preroll, but it's still bad form.

 

I have seen several shows that broke this rule, and they really regret it. *Sometimes* it works, but sometimes it doesn't. One place had only three frames of preroll before the first cue, and I'm still impressed that it worked at all.

 

I tend to start striping timecode at xx:00:00:00, using hours to denote different shows, but the first output (sound or cue) is at around 20 to 30 seconds. This gives me reasonable preroll even if I need to move the first cue slightly earlier, and it also gives me a usable window to spot if the timecode is being correctly sent and received by all the required devices and delay the show in time if it's not.

I'll generally put a 'dummy' cue at the start as well, so I can check cues are being fired.

 

It's a lot better to sit with houselights on in silence for an extra 30 seconds than to play the first bar of music and *then* find that the console isn't properly plugged in to timecode.

 

(While this has only saved me once, when the sound engineer changed tape decks and forgot to repatch LTC, it's still worth it.)

[kitlane]

My students have used Reaper to do exactly this job. It used to be completely free, now I think it is shareware. But any decent sequencer should do it.

 

Another approach is to trigger playbacks with MIDI note messages. If you use an audio+MIDI sequencer you can embed the lx cues in a MIDI track. You can still record this live from the Pearl and later edit it as you would with the script file approach. The slightly tricky aspect is that you have to use MIDI Programme changes to select a different Playback page. The main advantage I see is that in the sequencer you can line up the lx cue points exactly with the timecode hit points all in a nice graphical environment. You don't need to worry about different timecode start points for different tracks as the Pear isn't following TC.

 

If I was doing it I would probably use GType (show control software- not free) and from the TC trigger cues containing MIDI messages. Undoubtedly more complicated than is required, but I like it that way ;-)

[dbuckley]

Of course, the right answer is that we stopped doing stuff like this years ago; there are an (admitedly small) number of PC packages that can do both sound a light duties, and have syncronisation right in there. So put the Pearl back in the flightcase, and check out ShowMagic, Light Factory, and PCStage (in that order, assuming you're using movers or other intels). Theres also stuff like Medialon, but that may be a bit specialised.

 

I'm wondering if my XRi300 (LTC / MTC transcoder) will ever be powered on again...

 

And to be fair, if you have half a dozen Hog3s and 48 channels of audio playback and a 42u rack of hard disk video players then a single PC isn't going to replace all that, but for a few tracks and a few universes and a few videos a PC is now all that is required.

[kitlane]

Of course, the right answer is that we stopped doing stuff like this years ago; there are an (admitedly small) number of PC packages that can do both sound a light duties, and have syncronisation right in there. So put the Pearl back in the flightcase, and check out ShowMagic, Light Factory, and PCStage (in that order, assuming you're using movers or other intels). Theres also stuff like Medialon, but that may be a bit specialised.

 

I'm wondering if my XRi300 (LTC / MTC transcoder) will ever be powered on again...

 

And to be fair, if you have half a dozen Hog3s and 48 channels of audio playback and a 42u rack of hard disk video players then a single PC isn't going to replace all that, but for a few tracks and a few universes and a few videos a PC is now all that is required.

This is largely true, but sometimes it is nice (or necessary) to achieve something like this without investing in a new piece of hardware or software.

[timsabre]

Of course, the right answer is that we stopped doing stuff like this years ago; there are an (admitedly small) number of PC packages that can do both sound a light duties, and have syncronisation right in there. So put the Pearl back in the flightcase, and check out ShowMagic, Light Factory, and PCStage (in that order, assuming you're using movers or other intels). Theres also stuff like Medialon, but that may be a bit specialised.

This is largely true, but sometimes it is nice (or necessary) to achieve something like this without investing in a new piece of hardware or software.

 

The Pearl should do this task well. As an alternative to using a script file with timecode, you can trigger scenes and chases directly using midi note commands.

I've had some fairly, erm, intense experiences with ShowMagic, Pearl+a sequencer is a lot easier to program, in my opinion.

 

Edit: sorry, I see Kit just explained about using midi notes.

[TomTom]

Of course, the right answer is that we stopped doing stuff like this years ago; there are an (admitedly small) number of PC packages that can do both sound a light duties, and have syncronisation right in there. So put the Pearl back in the flightcase, and check out ShowMagic, Light Factory, and PCStage (in that order, assuming you're using movers or other intels). Theres also stuff like Medialon, but that may be a bit specialised.

This is largely true, but sometimes it is nice (or necessary) to achieve something like this without investing in a new piece of hardware or software.

 

The Pearl should do this task well. As an alternative to using a script file with timecode, you can trigger scenes and chases directly using midi note commands.

I've had some fairly, erm, intense experiences with ShowMagic, Pearl+a sequencer is a lot easier to program, in my opinion.

 

Edit: sorry, I see Kit just explained about using midi notes.

 

Thanks to everyone for the advice... looks as if I am going to go with Midi note triggers... dont know if im being stupid now but how do I know which note does what? i.e. what the note C3 in my sequencer will do?

[niclights]

See manual p.201-202.

 

In summary:

 

Playback page = Program change

Fire playback @xx% = Note on, note number (playback 0-14 decimal), key velocity (level)

Use aftertouch on chases for additional controls.