Audience numbers and Fire Exits

[Cliffb]

Hi all,

Just had an instance where a touring company has come into the venue and due to their 'in the round' set-up have effectively blocked both of the two designated Fire Exits. The audience and performers will enter the acting area via one standard width doorway, non FE signed. I raised my unease with this arrangement and was told by the Company Tour Manager that this is OK as they are under an audience size of 50 and they have ushers in the auditorium to direct people in the event of fire.

How do you feel about this? Is there such a minimum audience size thing? I've not heard of it. I know full well that FE should have a non-maintained illuminated sign... but perhaps this doesn't apply to audiences of 50 or less. Any thoughts

PS... I'm in Scotland BTW.... don't know if the regs are different here.

Thanks a lot

[Maddison]

Well.

 

There is some kind of urban wisdom, that a room of fifty or less (including actors/technicians/FOH staff) needs only one fire exit, and you will find many fire officers who will support that. But that number is reached as a part of a fire risk assessment, which has to be done on a space by space venue.

 

The risk assessment and accompanying method statement/fire policy will set out how you safely evacuate everyone from the space, and will set a maximum number of people that can be safely evacuated. Your method statement will quite possibly determine that you will denote fire exits by illuminated running man signs. As this is your space (in a corperate sense), you have a duty to ensure that changes to exit routes do not impact on the fire risk assessment to the space. Almost certainly they will.

 

If you've got a risk assessment and method statement that shows that in the event of a fire, all the people who will be in the space can be evacuated through the door that they wish to use, directed by ushers, then it's all fine. If you don't then you need to sit down with your FOH staff, whoever is respnsible for safety/fire safety at your venue and the company and work out what you can do. Might be worth getting your local fire officer in as well; in my experience, fire officers are very happy to find safe work arounds to situations like this.

 

(Mods: topic might do better in Safety?)

[GRisdale]

Can't say that I'd be massively keen on the idea...

 

Speaking of "safe work arounds": Can either of the obstructions to the two other fire exits be removed easily in an emergency (by the ushers / crew)? I would suggest that this would be a good place to start.

 

When you say "effectively blocked"... Are they just obscuring the line of sight to them by the audience? Are they making the audience take a longer route to the exit (forcing them to go around the set)? Or, are they making it physically impossible / very difficult for a walking person or wheel chair user to reach the door?

 

Additionally, I'm pretty sure that the British Standard involved (can't remember the number) recommends that maintained exit signs be fitted where it is expected that the lighting will be dimmed as part of the room's use (which I assume is the case here).

 

Gareth.

 

EDIT: Typos!

[w/robe]

All I would add is that at the end of the day it is the Venues call not the Tour Managers to decide if this is safe and who they should consult/inform.

 

Did no one know that this was what would happen? Had they not sent plans in advance?

[Cliffb]

Can't say that I'd be massively keen on the idea...

 

Speaking of "safe work arounds": Can either of the obstructions to the two other fire exits be removed easily in an emergency (by the ushers / crew)? I would suggest that this would be a good place to start.

 

No.

 

When you say "effectively blocked"... Are they just obscuring the line of sight to them by the audience? Are they making the audience take a longer route to the exit (forcing them to go around the set)? Or, are they making it physically impossible / very difficult for a walking person or wheel chair user to reach the door?

 

When I say 'effectively blocked', what I really mean is completely blocked - by locked together seating.

 

Additionally, I'm pretty sure that the British Standard involved (can't remember the number) recommends that maintained exit signs be fitted where it is expected that the lighting will be dimmed as part of the room's use (which I assume is the case here).

 

Gareth.

 

EDIT: Typos!

 

With regard to a risk assessment - there appears to have been some sort of prior agreement between the venue management and the Tour Company that it would be acceptable. If it were me making the call I'd be very edgey. I know it's only a one night stand, .... but still.......lets hope there's no emergency.

[Brian]

but perhaps this doesn't apply to audiences of 50 or less. Any thoughts.

The 50 people limit allows for a single exit provided the door width is a minimum width of 800mm, and the travel distance to that exit is no more than 15m for fixed seating or 18m for an open space.

 

Source: 'Yellow Book', Table 7

[Cliffb]

but perhaps this doesn't apply to audiences of 50 or less. Any thoughts.

The 50 people limit allows for a single exit provided the door width is a minimum width of 800mm, and the travel distance to that exit is no more than 15m for fixed seating or 18m for an open space.

 

Source: 'Yellow Book', Table 7

 

 

'Yellow Book'?? I don't know of this. Any links or guidance on this would be appreciated. Thanks

[hadyn.williams]

the yellow book!

[Cliffb]

the yellow book!

 

 

Ahhahh.... Thanks. Much appreciated

[robloxley]

What does your fire/licensing officer say?

[rooftop]

I would not allow the touring company to do it, regardless of what the "regs" might allow you to get away with in terms of audience numbers.

 

The whole point of having two fire exits is so that if one becomes blocked by smoke/fire, the other is still available. This doesn't change whether you have 50 or 500 in the room. It's all very well to say the ushers will be there to guide people through the unmarked fire exit... but ushers have toilet breaks / fag breaks / make cups of tea... they shouldn't, but they do.

 

I fail to see why a touring company's requirements should be allowed to take precedence over basic fire evacuation (life saving) controls.

 

Can you imagine the investigation (post fire) if someone were to die or even get injured by smoke? "the venue had two designated fire exits but both were blocked and out of use, leaving an unmarked door as the only available exit". Someone's head WOULD roll for that.

 

:(

[paulears]

I'm not sure this is correct. The current system of licensing works by setting some standards in print - on the license, and then allowing the venue to carry the responsibility of meeting them. Use my own venue as an example. The venue has 1440 seats, but only 1200 can be sold. In this case, it is not the case that the auditorium does not have enough exits, it is because outside the auditorium, the public are forced to exit by a 'funnelled' access route. The previous license was amended after a visit by the fire officer to take this into account. The option to carry out some building work to ease the exit was not taken up. The new license has continued with the same limit. As we now have more fire exits from the auditorium than we actually need, we removed the fire exit signs and crash bars from the doors leading to the bar area. Still works fine on yellow book standards. If we sectioned off the rear of the auditorium to decrease capacity even further, we could take those fire exits in the closed off area out of action, and still be ok on capacity vs exit ratio.

 

A few years ago on the old system, I needed to close off public access to some fire doors where a set was being built that would cover them. In this case, I asked the fire officer for his opinion and he was perfectly happy as the remaining exits were more than adequate for evacuation purposes.

 

The responsibility for saying yes or no rests with the venue management, and it is up to them. If they can accept responsibility, all is well - if they are not prepared to accept the responsibility, then that is that!

 

One thing the fire officer did tell me was that it is not acceptable to take a fire exit out of action just by removing the exit lamp, the exit needs to be 'removed'. In our example, we removed the entire exit signage, and the crash bars. If the set covers it up, that in my view would also be fine.

 

The trouble really is that the old tablets of stone have been removed, and we're on our own, and have nobody to blame if it goes wrong.

 

It is something that can be easily risk assessed, just like everything else. Less audience = less risk when evacuating - so do the maths and if the ratio of people against exits is as good or better, in my own view, the room is safer. You'd have to check, of course, that the remaining exits are equally as good, by access or distance, but that's not impossible.