Help: buying outdoor giant LED screen /video billboards for Ads purpos

[HARASI]

Hello All, new to the forum

 

Am am planning to buy an outdoor LED screen / video billboard which will be used for advertisements purpose of size 6x4 meters (WxH). I hope to read your comments & suggestions on suppliers/manufacturers if anyone has experience in this or currently own a giant LED screen.

 

As per my researches the number one LEDs in the world are those made by Nichia (Japanese Company) and maybe CREE is the second (another Japanese Company) & the most known suppliers/manufacturers for these screen are Barco, Lighthouse, Eurodisplay and some more suppliers. These suppliers quoted me a very expensive price 4k to 6k $ per meter square.

 

On the other part of the world >> China there are hundreds of suppliers which has a reasonable price and some of them do use Nichia & Cree LEDs. If anyone has experienced any Chinese supplier I hope to get your feedbacks on their products. As am lost with which one to go?!! as each one has different type of control system, materials, design, ...etc

 

Appreciate your comments & feedbacks . . .

[musht]

Nichia make some of nicest blue ,green and white but not red.

Cree are American.

 

Pitch, pixel density makes big difference to price 8mm to 25mm, bigger pitch is cheaper but only viewable from greater distance.

 

Control system is important, is it a system that is stable, scaleable and supportable. Wobbly software can spoil your whole day.

 

6 * 4 screen = 24m^2 (* 6K USD) = 144K USD for a big brand seems pretty reasonable, likely to have some backup, spares and software support.

 

Have to have some spare tiles aging with the rest of the screen to enable easy and non obvious swap out.

 

Its going to need some repairs.

 

6000mm * 4000mm screen , big pitch 25mm , 5 LEDs per Pixel, single blue , 160 * 240 resolution, 38,400

pixels about same resolution as a phone screen but bigger.

 

192,000 individual LEDs at 5 Nines reliability, life support level, 99.999% reliable over 12 months, still reckon on losing couple of LEDs a year. Start changing the resolution up or the reliability down and the numbers change....

 

Spend now or spend later, either buy a big brand or pay a consultant to get you the best deal.

[dbuckley]

Not an area I know a lot about, but NZ manufacturer MonstaVision [website] are getting to be very well liked by those who have used them...

[paulears]

I guess much depends on if you want a long lasting, servicable product, or something that as long as it works initially, isn't your problem later on. One thing is quite certain, based on product bought direct and imported from China. It will fine initially, but buying direct from the factory often means they don't actually make them until you order. Then, you effectively get a one-off. They may not even have the raw materials available until you order. They build it for you, test it and ship it. If you want spares - for maybe accidental damage or a proper fault, the factory won't have them in stock, and may have to make them again from scratch. Probably with different components. Some of the hardware couldbe unavailable, and if made 'new' might not fit because the don't have the rest of it to match it to, and building essentially by hand, lining up holes can be a bit hit or miss.

 

The cost savings are substantial though, so could influence the decision - especially if the client values cost over everything else. Buying from a manufacturer with stock and spares on the shelf is best if a decent working life is required.

 

Last thing - just because you see photos or videos of the products does not mean they actually exist. I import Chinese microphones, and some I paid for in May have not yet been assembled in the factory because they cannot bond gold colour to the grills, as in the photos they sent me. I suspect they are pretty good with photoshop. They can get to a champagne colour, but the mesh they purchased to make them is the wrong type to be chemically turned gold. The system over there is very different to Western ways. There is a definate difference in product qualities. Mostly, the quality is excellent - you just have to live with unrepeatability.

[Pete McCrea]

Personally I wouldn't be too worried about the specific make of the LED's.

 

If I was going to buy LED screen (which we're hoping to do in the not too distant future) then I'd be looking for:

 

- A known product that carries a strong Brand Name.

- Manufacturer Support: When (not if) it goes wrong you'll need the support there to make sure you don't loose revenue

- Cross-Hire-ability: it's all nice having cheap screen, till you need to make a 8x6m screen to get the job, but there is no where to go to get the extra modules you need. And vice versa- you want people to come and dry hire modules from you when they run short. And controllers when you need to make two screens from your stock

- Processing: what is needed to drive it. Some provide a processor that doesn't need any front end scaling, others do. And the frame delay. If your running live video from cameras this needs to be as low as possible.

- Weight and Rigging: how hard is it to get it to where you need it to be flown?

- Life Span: you'll want the product to give you a decent long lifespan, so construction needs to be robust and durable.

- Power Consumption: check what the current draw is, because you'll need to be finding large supplies for it. A few watts per module could add up quickly.

- Viewing Angles: what does it look like from the extreme sides. How does the LED layout affect colour shift as you change viewing angles.

- Weather proofing,

- Pixel resolution for the desired market. If your looking indoor, then probably 4-8mm, outdoor is likely to be 10-24mm resolution

 

Those prices aren't that bad. We've been quoted £12k/SqM list for a 16mm product recently, plus then £20K per processor. Then all the inter connect cables as these aren't included in the pricing as well as rigging bars and ground support frames. (Decent) LED screens are not cheap. LED isn't a cheap game, as not only do you need the screen, but the transport and storage ability, plus rigging and power distribution equipment. Then you need the experienced people to build and operate it. I'm not trying to dissuade you, just point out the factors you might have not thought of.

 

And then you'll want to insure it against theft, loss or damage, because if you lease a screen, and then it gets trashed, you'll still have to keep making the payments on it.

 

Hope that helps.

[Ian H]

Currently babysitting some old Opti-screens out in sunny Nashville TN.

 

I agree with Pete on his reasoning but.....

 

http://eng.qs-tech.com/

 

these guys build screens that work and are at a price that works as well...some times there are options other than over priced and over speced european products( assembled in the far east)

 

Ian H

[back_ache]

I had a Chinese LED video screen manufacturer popup on my instant messenger once, as I was bored at the time,I had a chat with him.

 

Basically, his personal view was as a manufacturer he wouldn't be giving any after-sales at all, he makes it, you pay him, end of story.

 

needless to say, I didn't think that was a viable business relationship!

 

 

 

Perhaps if you are looking for something that acts as an electronic billboard you can find something cheaper and a known brand as if it is not showing full screen video it may utilize a simple cheaper control mechanism

[Ian H]

I had a Chinese LED video screen manufacturer popup on my instant messenger once, as I was bored at the time,I had a chat with him.

 

Basically, his personal view was as a manufacturer he wouldn't be giving any after-sales at all, he makes it, you pay him, end of story.

 

 

Quite possibly but from my experiance....

 

QS tech were a sub contractor on the original build of optiscreen and still support the product...

 

Panels and pcbs are returned by courier and returned by return - prompt and cheep

 

Have you ever tried to get support from our Belgium friends?

 

Ian H

[HARASI]

thank you all for your excellent support & helpful replies

 

Let me detail things now:

 

First of all I am from the middle east (Oman) where no local or near by suppliers around & where temperature on summer days may reach over 60 degrees C under sunlight (especially as LED comes with metal cabinets) & also everyday is a sunny day.

 

I have received many quotations and here is my summary:

 

Pitch:

The most famous pitch is P16 for ads especially as my minimum viewing distance will be around 8 meters so I am talking about outdoor LED screen of Pitch 16 mm

 

Display:

The display will be used mostly for viewing different advertisements slides of PDFs or pictures play-listed for few seconds each as well as some animation work but not with real time video from a cam.

 

 

Price:

a. From a Brand name:

The latest one I got was 8000$ per m/square with nichia Leds + around 5000$ for control system Control PC + Operation & maintenance training on their company at my coast + shipping not included .. I didn't get Barco's quote yet as I don't know which office shall I contact. .

 

b. Chinese: I have contacted Nichia Hong Kong office to guide me to a chinese suppliers which use fully Nichia Leds on their screen. After I received their best 2 customers I was quoted around 3.4-4 k $ per m/square and extra 3000 for control system & PC + Operation & maintenance training on their Company for free + free spare parts (1% of cables and cards) + Free see freight

 

Also there are other suppliers which start from 1700-3000$ per m/square but with Silan LEDs(china brand) & Opto LEDs (Taiwan brand) with the same above benefits. All the suppliers has agreed to visit their companies & factories to inspect and see products in real before I make the order & some agreed to give free training even.

 

Power Consumption:

Most suppliers stated that the max power consumption on the range of 1000-12000 W per m/square unless one supplier which uses Nichia LEDS mentioned it as max 586 w/m2

 

Processing system & Software:

I have no idea on this but each supplier has their own software & different types of processor.

 

Life-Span:

All of them stated it as 100,000 hours with 50% brightness.

 

Weight:

Ranges from 60-70 kg per m/square for the standard steel cabinets unless if you want to pay extra hundreds per m/square to get aluminum cabinets.

 

Weather Proof:

All stated that product is water/dust proof and operate at the range of > Working:-20℃ ～ +60℃ > Storage: -35℃ ～ + 85℃ & 1-99% humidity << On my weather condition I will have to install an A/C on the back of screen to protect it from over heating & they will make special structure for A/C location.

 

Viewing Angle:

Most stated around (some has few degrees more or less):

Vertical Viewing Angle ≥70°

Horizontal Viewing Angle ≥110°

 

 

Now as you have seen most give almost same specifications using one specific type of LEDs but different price and different control software & system with big difference in __Price__ So am really lost and I couldn't make the decision so I wanted to here your feedbacks on specific manufacturers & suppliers if someone had really experienced any..

 

Also Nichia LEDs & CREE LEDs has almost the same price per m/square so I donno which one to go with?

 

Here is an example of a Chinese supplier Quote for 4x3 meter screen Using Nichia LEDs:

Item P16 Outdoor

Pixel information

Pixel Pitch 16 mm

LED Brand NICHIA

LED type

R: NSPR346JS

G: NSPG346GS

B: NSPB346GS

Pixel Configuration 1R1PG1B

Brightness 7000 cd/m2

Lifetime 100,000 Hrs

Continue Work time 24 Hrs

MTBF 3,000 Hrs

Standard Module Standard Module 16 X 16 dots

Standard Cabinet Dimension 1024 (W) x 1024 (H) x 200 (D) mm

LED Display

Size 4.096 (W) x 3.072 (H)= 12.58 M2

Display resolution 256 (W)x 192 (H)= 49152 dots

Virtual resolution 512 (W)x 384 (H)= 196608 dots

Packing

Packing Mode 2 Cabinets / Carton

Carton Material Non-Wooden

N.W 70kg/m2

Viewing

Optimal Viewing angle 120°(Horz.)/60°(Vert.)

Optimal Viewing Distance 8 ～ 150 m

Interface

PTy Video, Flash, Text, Graphic, animation

Video Input DVI

System Software Windows XP /2000

Source compatibility

RF, S-Video, RGB, RGBHV, YUV, YC,

Composition…etc

Communication RS232/RS485/LAN/WAN/WIFI/ Fiber link

Power

Power Voltage AC110V/220, 60/50Hz

Standard Power

Consumption(Max)

586w/m2

Power Consumption(Avg.) 293 w/m2

Driving Mode 1/2 scan , constant current

 

 

Engineering

Cabinet Material Spray Painted Steel

Ventilation/ cooling Forced Air Cooling

Waterproof Front IP65, back IP54

Module Access Rear Access

Environment

Temperature Storage: -35℃ ～ + 85℃;

Working:-20℃ ～ +60℃

Operate Humidity 10%～95%RH

Processing

Gray Scale >1024 levels each channel by R/G/B

Refresh Frequency >600Hz

Frame Frequency >120Hz

Pixels lost control < 300ppm

Brightness adjusting Software 256 grade adjustable

Colors 16 Bits

Warranty 3 Years

 

Price:

1 LED

Display

P16 Outdoor NICHIA LEDs

4.096 x 3.072 12.58 3440

43275$

2 Control

System

Operate software 1 set Free ----

YH control system 1 set 1500 $

Video processor 1 set 1500 $

The LED display Cost 46275$

 

Free Spare Parts:

1 D16 Spare Module backup module 2 pcs 220 free

2 Power supply Mean well 2 pcs 50 Free

3 Receiving card YH-SC 1 set ---- Free

4 Auto brightness adjustment card 1 set free free

5 Cables, screws, hardware and software manual, non-wood box , installing drawing Free

[musht]

Really not in any way an expert on LED video screens, others here be better placed to advise, though do know a bit about LEDs...

 

>First of all I am from the middle east (Oman) where no local or near by suppliers around & where temperature on >summer days may reach over 60 degrees C under sunlight (especially as LED comes with metal cabinets) & also >everyday is a sunny day.

 

Couple of things , are you sure 7000cd/m sometimes referred to as NITS is going to be bright enough?

60 C is high ambient, the first ever big installed outdoor LED screen was the NASDAQ on Times Square New York, the cooling system took up the entire corner block behind it.

Things have got a bit better since NASDAQ was first built but you need to look at a system that is designed to operate in that sort of temperature and figure in a lot of fans and radiators going somewhere.

 

>Also there are other suppliers which start from 1700-3000$ per m/square but with Silan LEDs(china brand) & Opto LEDs >(Taiwan brand) with the same above benefits. All the suppliers has agreed to visit their companies & factories to inspect >and see products in real before I make the order & some agreed to give free training even.

 

Nichia are a good brand but they are just the LED ,

Toyoda Gosei are another big name Japanese LED brand.

Cree don`t make a discrete small LED they supply LED dice to Asian makers who make 3mm , 5mm etc LEDs

Some of the Taiwanese offerings are just about as good as anyones tbh.

 

But the LED tells nothing about quality of assembly or the software your relying on to make the screen work, will they give you a demo of the software, try breaking it, your staff will.

 

 

>Power Consumption:

>Most suppliers stated that the max power consumption on the range of 1000-12000 W per m/square unless one supplier >which uses Nichia LEDS mentioned it as max 586 w/m2

 

Your HVAC engineer, you need one, will be grateful for dissipation figures that includes LEDs and drive electronics.

 

 

>Life-Span:

>All of them stated it as 100,000 hours with 50% brightness.

 

All of them gave you next weeks National Lottery numbers as well, lets say more realistically 30K hours useful, before repairs becomes real drag.

 

>Weight:

>Ranges from 60-70 kg per m/square for the standard steel cabinets unless if you want to pay extra hundreds per >m/square to get aluminum cabinets.

 

How many extra hundreds to mount the extra weight or install additional cooling?

 

>Weather Proof:

>All stated that product is water/dust proof and operate at the range of > Working:-20℃ ～ +60℃ > Storage: -35℃ ～ + >85℃ & 1-99% humidity << On my weather condition I will have to install an A/C on the back of screen to protect it from >over heating & they will make special structure for A/C location.

 

Screen makers based in Taiwan and China should be accustomed to making screens for high ambient and should have a few installed, ask to speak directly with customers who have screens in similar environments installed for a while . Sure happy customers will be happy to talk about their investment, if they cant find you happy customers to talk to.....

[Roderick]

I would strongly suggest that you start talking to local suppliers and operators.

The summer temperatures in your area will kill most screens, even very expensive brand names.

 

I am not sure about Oman, but have a look around Dubai etc. Or have a chat to the people who installed all the LED screens for the Doha Asian Games. Many lessons to be learned there.

 

But if you are about to spend US$200K+, why do you consult an internet forum?

[HARASI]

Really not in any way an expert on LED video screens, others here be better placed to advise, though do know a bit about LEDs...

 

musht,

 

thanks for your reply.

 

Regarding the brightness as per what I read from the internet (some sort of studies) that it should be above 6000 nits to be viewable on a sunny day so 7000nits maybe enough for my case. The cooling system I have seen projects on neighbor countries with similar weather was installed with split unit AC and working fine as the whole screen should be covered from the back side where in/out screen fans cycle air & I have discussed this with HVAC engineer and he said it should be fine as average temp will be around 40 degree and may reach 60 on very hot summer mid-days not always but it could happen.

 

 

I will have to consider the assembly and software of the company so I will try getting demo (not sure if they are going to agree). For the weight you have to pay around 700$ per square meter for aluminum to get weight of around 42 kg/m2

 

Problem is that this maybe the first LED screen on my country. Many of the Chinese suppliers have done projects on neighbor countries (Dubai, Doha, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia) which has almost similar weather but the problem are purchased by imports companies and not the end user. End user is always big ads & other companies as well as governments departments which is difficult to find the dedicated person to ask and discuss with about the screen.

 

thanks again for your help and I will keep eye open for users on similar weather. :huh:

 

 

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

I would strongly suggest that you start talking to local suppliers and operators.

The summer temperatures in your area will kill most screens, even very expensive brand names.

 

I am not sure about Oman, but have a look around Dubai etc. Or have a chat to the people who installed all the LED screens for the Doha Asian Games. Many lessons to be learned there.

 

But if you are about to spend US$200K+, why do you consult an internet forum?

 

As I mentioned before .. problem is that no local suppliers & operators. Oman has same weather as Dubai & Doha but operators are big ads companies as well as governments departments which is difficult to find the right person to chat with especially as those are different countries.

 

 

Also am not about to spend 200K $ :unsure: am just planning for a project or small business to start so my plan is to open an ads agency and bring LED screens to our market & all coast may be around 60K $ .. so I don't want to spend a lot of my capital for consultation. An experienced forum member who already own what you are looking for may give you his lessons and advices which may coast you thousands of dollars if you go to a consultation agency (believe me I have tried this on many stuffs).

 

However if you know anyone/any company who I can consult please advice me as we have nothing locally.

[back_ache]

To be honest I think you are "reinventing the wheel" by investigating screens from the LED's up and whilst we use LED technology its a very different application so our advice is subjective.

 

I think you would save yourself a lot of pain by building on the experiences of people already doing led billboards, to that end I think you should look for people already doing it. A quick google for example comes up with the site http://www.digitalsignagetoday.com/

 

 

good luck

[HARASI]

To be honest I think you are "reinventing the wheel" by investigating screens from the LED's up and whilst we use LED technology its a very different application so our advice is subjective.

 

I think you would save yourself a lot of pain by building on the experiences of people already doing led billboards, to that end I think you should look for people already doing it. A quick google for example comes up with the site http://www.digitalsignagetoday.com/

 

 

good luck

 

mmm maybe you're right

 

I thought I will have some experienced people around here thats why I started the topic .. I did have some good info from members though

 

I found the website recently

 

thanks

[Ledworldmichelle]

I can help you if you wanna to find Chinese manufacturer. The most important reliable & trustful company. Do send me your requirement, I do consult your needed. My email micolily@yahoo.com or skype:micoll79. ;)

 

 

Hello All, new to the forum

 

Am am planning to buy an outdoor LED screen / video billboard which will be used for advertisements purpose of size 6x4 meters (WxH). I hope to read your comments & suggestions on suppliers/manufacturers if anyone has experience in this or currently own a giant LED screen.

 

As per my researches the number one LEDs in the world are those made by Nichia (Japanese Company) and maybe CREE is the second (another Japanese Company) & the most known suppliers/manufacturers for these screen are Barco, Lighthouse, Eurodisplay and some more suppliers. These suppliers quoted me a very expensive price 4k to 6k $ per meter square.

 

On the other part of the world >> China there are hundreds of suppliers which has a reasonable price and some of them do use Nichia & Cree LEDs. If anyone has experienced any Chinese supplier I hope to get your feedbacks on their products. As am lost with which one to go?!! as each one has different type of control system, materials, design, ...etc

 

Appreciate your comments & feedbacks . . .