Rendezvous Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Hey there guys, I hope you could possibly help me out as im learning as much as I can about 100v line at the moment and I have been setting up for outdoor events. Recently I purchased some TOA Horn Loudspeakers which have several transformer tappings to choose from. I also have 3 260 Watt eagle elite amplifiers. I connected one of my amps to my mixer and roughly around 6 of the TOA horns. All set on a 30 watt tap, so well within any amplifiers tolerence especially with these workhorses. At even very low volume I get distortion with a type of cut/clipping sound. All input and gains ahave been limited so there is no reason for this. I have even tried with my 4 brand new Adastra Horns. It seems the higher the tapping or the more horns I add the worse the problem becomes, and it is even worse when adding even slight lower end frequencies and with that turned down by dB nearly OFF makes hardly any audible difference with speech or music reproduction. I am wondering how or why am I saturating the transformer somehow? Also when I turn it on amplifier, the light on the front of the amplifier power switch flickers somewhat randomly and continues to do so!? Could this mean a new amplifier or transformer, could it be my speaker lines? (I dont think so thought I have checked) and all tapping cables ar ein the horn driver units multiway switch so I doubt it could be a short with this. Anyone with any other ideas of how I could solve this, I am really annoyed as I have spent lots of money on these 2nd hand amps and hate to think I have wasted it.. Many Thanks and I appreciate all help and hope others my benifit too. <_< Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Beesley Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Although the horns present a 240W load on the amplifier it is possible you are under the minimum impedance for the amp. As a problem solver its worth checking the system with only one horn on the system. You could also look into a 100V Impedance meter such as this from Clever Little Boxes http://www.cie-group.com/products/cleverli...oducts/elm1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rendezvous Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 Many thanks for the reply chris. I only used six so should be 180-watt load. Also even with a single horn on the system it sound pretty bad.. Im using quality cable runs rated for 15-Amps terminated with XLR Connectors also. Myself I reckon its the amp. It just gets progressively worse with the more I add, very muddy/distorted and clipped sound like an interference with anything. Also as I side note I have tried several source inputs from low-z to high-z based equipment with no noticeable change. Cheers, Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Hard to say what might be wrong... - The flickering front panel light could well be an elderly neon light.- It would not be unusual for the output power to be measured at several % distortion - so the output isn't likely to be too 'clean'.- If these amps do not have an inbuilt high pass filter, then "low" frequencies (below 100 to 125Hz say) could easily cause saturation problems However, if you are getting these problems at low volume levels, either there's a gain structure problem (perhaps the input is more sensitive than you are used to?) or there could well be a fault with the amps. It may well be worth getting the system checked by someone who can test it? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 You say you have 3 amps? Are they all doing the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boswell Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 At the risk of asking the obvious, are they 100v amps?A very quick google shows the Eagle Elite to be a standard 8R amp but I can't find a spec sheet quickly. A model number or link to the spec sheet might help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rendezvous Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 Thanks so much for your input. I have tried with the other amplifiers. It doesent sound nowhere near as bad with the other 2 but it is still noticeable, so I reckon it could be some fault with the output stage on the amp somewhere along the line. I'm going to have to get it repaired I think. I am using XLR's on the speakers so could it cause this undeserable effect if a stray strand were to come into contact with another? As regards to the sound quality, I definetly accept there will be some limited distortion with 100v line as it is a generally low end free where horns and other non musical quality speakers are concerned. If its any help I tried with the music columns with the same effect. In answer to boswell, the Eagle Elite Series had 8R outputs rated at the same output power, but they were primarily used for the 100v line. Sorry I should have clarified this but everything including all loudspeakers have step-down audio transformers with the obvious primary and secondary sides.I hope this helps, but you think this could be a self fix. The mains transformer does buzz with the speakers very loud when the current rushes to it, I cleaned up all earth contacts with no change <_<. Thanks A Lot,Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleah Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 If the amps have a useable 8R output it may be worth hooking a single 8R speaker to it to see what happens. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 re: the strand of conductor touching. A short is a short. Don't get into spending loads of money on speaker connectors or expensive feeder. The entire point of a 70 or 100V system is to allow higher feeder resistance. Speakons work fine - using XLRs is more tricky. Electrically they're a connector and will do the job, however, they need soldering where speakons have screws, so making them up outside is a pain. The other thing of course is that using XLRs on any loudspeaker system is now frowned on, and the prospects of plugging a 100V speaker connection into a mixer would be 'interesting'. 100V systems don't have to sound pants, and good quality loudspeakers and amps can sound perfectly good when distributed by a 100V system. The use of horns produce the characteristic nasal quality, but that's a product of the speaker design, not the interconnection. If the amp is distorted then it needs sorting. I doubt the 100V line interconnect is the real problem. finding the point at which distorion is being created is the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rendezvous Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 Thats great, yes I am aware of all those points. Speakons are rarther restrictive and very expensive and all my speakers have XLR, yes I agree entirely but as I picked them up cheap, they are quick and easy once soldered I am fully happy. At the Eastbourne Airbourne 2009 Airshow, they simply pinned into some extreamly thin grade cable much similar to the cheap stuff they supply on budget reels and use the feeder from the horns clipped to the pins to make the connection. I'm not sure how well this would fend off the rain, but sounded reasonable at lower volume. And Sleah, thanks for pointing out the obvious! It always helps to have someone to see something you dont possibly see haha! Thanks again.Paulears your answer was very helpful, I think that is the root cause, I will write back my final conclusion to let anyone else know what to do in a similar situation. Although I would hope that someone would not be cabling such a system that dident no what they are doing fully. All The best guys <_< and what a great community! A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. After a lot of testing, It can only point to one thing the amplifier. I hooked up an 8R Loudspeaker with the same effect nearly. But on 100v line was worse, I guess with the voltage and all. So it means a new amplifier which I have no funding for!! :blink:. When I talk through the mic a bit louder a get a buzzing as if its from the transformer and then I hear a pop and it goes away after I have finished talking. Does this sound a classic fault with an amp can it be fixed easily and/or cheaply? Thanks A LotJosh :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 As the 8R output has the same fault it is likely the amp module at blame. If the amp is simply a normal audio amp with a 100V transformer fitted then you could remove the transformer, box it up and use it with a normal amp. Cheap way of getting round things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rendezvous Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 Thanks a lot Jon and everyone else for your support, means a lot. I will get the PCB seen to by an electronic engineer.. I hope other people will find this useful..! A great 100v line troubleshooter me thinks <_< Cheers,Josh :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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