Safe Hangman's noose

[Brixton]

Although the last time I worked on a show when we hung a performer (Judas back on JC Superstar in 81/82) I would submit the HSE bods are tighter these days than they were then.

 

My thoughts run along these lines

Moderation: As the next section says forget this bit - it has been removed. See the post further down

 

Actually forget all the above and remember this

if fluing people with a noose around thier neck seems outside your comfort zone

DO NOT DO IT

I would submit - as it is a student production- tell the director to get a proper performer flying company in to do it.

if the director baulks at the cost then she/he will come up with another way of doing it

Shakespeare ( a sometime respected playwright) had huge scenes on his stage using a chap called the chorus and the audience's imagination

[Jivemaster]

Can you get a weighted shop dummy or even a life size rag doll, dressed in the costume then hang it for real and film it in colour. Or hang the dummy and film it in silhouette, for projection on cue?

[paulears]

Moderation: PLEASE READ THIS

 

As many contributers have said - there are ways to do this with acceptable safety standards that can have the proper risk assessment processes applied, but everyone needs to keep in mind that advice given here may be misunderstood (it often is) and it is taken as a guide by people with more enthusiasm than experience. The same thing happens with pyrotechnics. Techniques that in responsible hands are safe, are dangerous when carried out without the necessary skills and experience.

 

Nobody thinking of attaching things to a performer - especially 'things' that go around the neck, should even be contemplated this without serious, and professional guidance. The comment in the post above that suggests calling in a firm of professionals that are competent in flying people is the best advice that has been given here.

 

This topic is about making a safe hangman's noose. The Blue Room is not the place to give any advice on this, other than seek professional advice. The other suggestions for alternatives are the kind of advice that we are able to give.

 

Please - no more suggestions on how to kill people. Consider this, if a student in a school or college followed our advice, and convinced their teacher our idea was sound, who would be to blame if someone was hurt - or worse?

[librarian28]

Ok My question is this. Any Ideas where I can find evedence that this has been done before in theatre and it is an acceptable method?

 

A description of the system we have used for more than 40 years wouldn't pass moderation - and, of course, we wouldn't broadcast it anyway. This webpage includes a link to a video of the staged effect and it would be good to see what effect you finally go with. From your post, the main sticking point for you, though, is that you need to "prove" to an authority figure that your proposal passes their test. My main reason for posting is to make my point that evidence that it has been done that way before (or, worse - "that is the way I always do it and it has always been OK") are dodgy concepts to include in a Risk Assessment.

 

If you think you have done all the paperwork you can, then a good ruse might be to demonstrate it yourself and then entice him/her to have a go. It might just break the atmosphere.

[Shez]

And here's why it's really not a good idea to try this in a school:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8082614.stm

[Stutwo]

College students came to me today to ask me if they could build someone hanging from the rig as part of their self-devised piece for exam. I immediately thought of this thread and said absolutely no, whereas in the past I would have perhaps tried to think how we could achieve it safely. In these times of H&S and media, I think it's now one of the effects that anyone less than a professional rigger needs to say no to.

[librarian28]

College students came to me today to ask me if they could build someone hanging from the rig as part of their self-devised piece for exam. I immediately thought of this thread and said absolutely no, whereas in the past I would have perhaps tried to think how we could achieve it safely. In these times of H&S and media, I think it's now one of the effects that anyone less than a professional rigger needs to say no to.

 

I get that the notion of 'hanging' someone puts the willies up people even more than 'flying' someone (for both activities, we always try to use 'suspend' - 'cause it's just a little more neutral) but I sometimes tell a nervous performer that if they knew how all the lights and scenery were hung above the stage, they'd realise that they are safer up there above it than walking about on the stage under it. (I don't really say it - I just think it).

[OllieDuff]

At the risk of resurrecting an old thread...

 

I recently used a combination of the methods above to good effect in an amateur production of Parade; in addition to the weak link in the loop, not having the end of the rope tied off (so if he drops then the rope comes with him) and using a full body harness to support Leo's weight, I also tied the noose "backwards" - that is to say, I followed the standard steps for tying a hangman's noose (which I shall not post here for fear of the Banhammer), but started with what would normally be the short end of the rope being long, and vice versa. The result is that rather than the trailing end being the self-tightening end when pulled, it's static so the noose doesn't tighten. The sliding end is then trimmed so that it only just pokes out of the barrel of the knot, and can't be pulled on. This means that if the actor falls into the noose AND the long end gets snagged (unlikely if the tree is well-designed) AND the breakaway doesn't go (very unlikely), it doesn't constrict around his neck. This facilitates the rescue scenario practiced by Stage Management and also gives Leo a fighting chance to reach up, grab the loop and pull down to snap the weak link. Furthermore, the system was set up as a "lynch" type system where the primary risk of death is from strangulation/choking, rather than a "long drop" type as used by hangmen historically, where the primary risk of death is by breaking the neck. Disclaimer: this method and rescue scenario worked on that particular show, in that particular venue,with those particular people involved - do your own thorough risk assessment and method statement before attempting any live hanging effect.

 

I must disagree with those who have said (paraphrased) "when death is a possible outcome, even the most miniscule risk is unacceptable"; for example, there are instances of people dying in RTCs in a 5 star EuroNCAP car, wearing their seatbelt and driving responsibly. However, no one would argue from this evidence that driving to work is unacceptably risky. Similarly, I'm not claiming that the method I used for the show above is risk-free. With special effects in general and personnel suspension in particular, part of your mitigation can be to ensure you have the tools and procedures in place not only to minimise the risk of an emergency situation, but also to handle such a situation - if the lineset holding the thesp's harness jams and he can't get down, how do you recover him from height? If he falls into the noose, how do you get him out before he chokes to death? What happens if he has a heart attack in the harness etc.

[Andrew C]

Can I refer you to this thread? Ollie covered the problem I alluded to, but there are clear reasons to be extraordinarily careful!

[dbuckley]

Thread resurrection from dead error in post 23

[librarian28]

Ollie,

Hi. You don't mention it, but I hope our advice was of help.

[GaryNattrass]

I recall seeing the simulation of a guilotine scene at the London or Edinburgh Dungeon, it was all done with sound effects and lighting, the spraying of water to emulate blood on the audience when the lights went out was the best touch though! http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif

[adam2]

I can think of ways in which hanging might be simulated with safety UNDER PROFESSIONAL GUIDANCE, but to be honest I would not feel comfortable if any of these idea were done to ME. And that suggests that it might be better avoided.

[librarian28]

I recall seeing the simulation of a guilotine scene at the London or Edinburgh Dungeon, it was all done with sound effects and lighting, the spraying of water to emulate blood on the audience when the lights went out was the best touch though! http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif

Gary,

We did a video for the Edinburgh Dungeon hanging a highwayman (or something). Was that still being used?

[OllieDuff]

Ollie,

Hi. You don't mention it, but I hope our advice was of help.

 

I didn't in fact come upon this thread until after I'd done the show - I assumed when designing the effect that the BR would respond to any general enquiries on the subject with a combination of "if you have to ask then you shouldn't be doing it" and "if we post about this then school groups will try it and kill someone". I replied primarily to demonstrate that the effect could be achieved in an amateur context with sufficient planning and forethought.

 

Andrew - I never said that one doesn't have to be very careful. However, I feel that someone, somewhere in the amdram community will at some point have a go at designing a similar effect irrespective of what's posted on the BR. I always make it clear that the method that I used worked fine for that particular production, in that particular venue, with those particular actors and crew and if someone blindly applies the effect as I did it and screws up because they didn't think about it in the context of their production then it's clear to me where the legal and moral responsibility lies - though clearly posting this in Beginners Please might be considered irresponsible due to Teenager Invincibility Syndrome. I have published the method I used in more detail on a web resource for local theatre groups on this basis, because the next time that an amateur group round these parts wants to do Parade/Pillowman/whatever (possibly with one of my mates in the noose) then I'd feel much happier if they have a starting point for designing their effect rather than taking a wild stab in the dark - and documenting the design process does also identify the ways in which you don't want to do it!

 

On the topic of the overall discussion, I think it's important with any effects carrying significant or abnormal risks to negotiate assertively with the stage manager to ensure that you get sufficient stage time to test and tech the effect properly. If that means spending an hour or two doing half-speed runs under full light until the cast are comfortable, then so be it. Don't just design your effect, assume it'll work then attempt to run it at full speed in the dark.