Show Control Errors

[jonhole]

Hi All,

 

I'm looking for examples of when automated / 'total-show-controled' systems have failed or gone wrong (in a situation where it wouldn't have been a problem had the system been manually controlled - like in a 'normal' theatrical environment).

 

I remember hearing about a problem once at a concert for a Boy Band (I can't remember who), where an automated system was set off accidentally, causing scenery AND (I think) one of the members of the band to be flown out. The whole lot then had to be manually reset in front of the crowd. I've tried to search online but, due to the limited information that I can remember, I haven't been able to find anything.

 

Does anyone know about the event I may be talking about, or have any other situations like I described previously?

 

Many Thanks,

 

Jon

[Fletch]

Here's a rather old example I'm aware of - not much technical detail I'm afraid.

 

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article...bang/article.do

 

I'm sure you can google for some more...

[w/robe]

It is quite hard to say when this

 

in a situation where it wouldn't have been a problem had the system been manually controlled - like in a 'normal' theatrical environment

 

is the case.

 

Many effects could not be done in a 'normal' way and I'm sure we've all worked on shows where Qs have been called or taken early or late or missed or where the set has broken, sliders come off track, trucks came out of mouse etc.

[jonhole]

w/robe,

Of course, I fully understand that some automated effects can not be done 'manually'.

When I say they have caused problems, I'm talking about slightly more then simply an early Q.

For example, I'm sure there would be a way to fly the Chitty Car in a way that didn't involve a computer system. No, it may not have looked the same, or had such a 'wow' appeal, but the show also wouldn't have come to an early close due to a computer system crashing!

Also, it would be less likely the Car would have crashed into the set which didn't move out the way, if the whole think was being controlled manually.

These are just two cases of automated systems failing, and these are the examples I am looking for.

[KevinE]

There was an interesting back-stage documentary on TV a year or so ago following the crew on a Kylie tour. This might have been mentioned on BR before at some point so worth a search if you're interested..I cant just see it. Essentially one of the systems wouldnt boot the network meaning the musicians, lighting and effects lost their click-track, cues etc and the whole thing caused temporary pandemonium for everyone.

[dbuckley]

I'm looking for examples of when automated / 'total-show-controled' systems have failed ... I remember hearing about a problem once at a concert for a Boy Band (I can't remember who), where an automated system was set off accidentally, causing scenery AND (I think) one of the members of the band to be flown out.

 

Thats doesn't sound like a show control failure but of an automation system failure.

 

The essense of show control is an overarching system that directs the behaviour of several different disciplines. In your example, scenary and band member flying are both likely to be one dispciline, which is automation.

 

Ditto the two Chitty examples - both sound like automation failures.

 

Show control failure has the capability to bust many aspects of a show completely and simultaneously, but none of these examples have the ring of a failed show control system. I'm sure there are many such examples, but in general they will all be "nothing happened" type failures rather than "too much happened".

 

In terms of your postualtion, then yes, a failed show control causing several things not to happen is a situation unlikely to be replicated with people doing the coordination activities, but in the long run, show control is more reliable and reproducible than people. :P

[jonhole]

I'm looking for examples of when automated / 'total-show-controled' systems have failed

 

Thats doesn't sound like a show control failure but of an automation system failure.

 

Thanks for your reply David. Maybe I would have been better to say 'automated OR 'total-show-controlled' systems, as I am currently looking at examples of both.

 

 

TIn terms of your postualtion, then yes, a failed show control causing several things not to happen is a situation unlikely to be replicated with people doing the coordination activities, but in the long run, show control is more reliable and reproducible than people.

Would it be fair to argue, in that case, that although show control is more reliable and reproducible then people; when it does go wrong, it can go wrong in a more 'spectacular' way due to everything being affected?

[dbuckley]

Would it be fair to argue, in that case, that although show control is more reliable and reproducible then people; when it does go wrong, it can go wrong in a more 'spectacular' way due to everything being affected?

Hell yeah, the day it breaks, imagine, the wizard waves his wand and the lights dont change, the pyros dont fire, the automation stays put so the wizard doesn't rise on his platform, no smoke, no sound effects, the wench runs on (she's not under show control!) and her radio mic stays muted, in a full show control scenario, failure can be ugly.

 

Which is why in many show control scenarios there are fault tolerant systems.

 

Worth noting you don't see much show control in typical theatrical settings; there was a fair amount of noise made a couple of years ago about a production that used SFX (an entry level show control tool) and the stage manager operated it controlling lighting and sound playback, which is about as simple a show control scenario that can be imagined, yet theatre rarely gets even that far. Visit a theme park you get the full show control monty. Cruise ships also dabble with show control, sometimes fairly seriously. A couple of cruise ship folk will probably chime in with some stories...

 

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Thanks for your reply David. Maybe I would have been better to say 'automated OR 'total-show-controlled' systems, as I am currently looking at examples of both.

I have a friend who is a rock and roll production manager, and automation failure caused him to have to step out in front of a crowd of several tens of thousands of (maybe Italian or Spanish, cant remember, somewhere round there in Europe) screaming fans explaining that the megastar they had paid to see and the band were stuck many feet above ground level due to automation failure, and could they kindly bear with him as they attempted to rescue said stuck people...

[mac.calder]

Examples of show control failure... Got a fair few of them...

 

Let's see, I have had SMPTE not appear on my desk (either by dropped USB support, cable malfunctions, random stuff) - solution - use the Simulate Timecode option on the desk, get counted in, within a minute, the show is as it should be to within 1/2 a second.

 

I have had RS-232 interface boxes die mid show - only solution is to manually trigger the devices if possible, then reset them before the next cue comes into effect, we have had the show control system completely crash, and basically we had to trim out "non-essential" automation, and employ a few extra people from arround the ship to do things at the correct time based on paper cue sheets. Basically, you make do. As I say on my backstage tour "The shows basically run themselves, but when something fails, I really earn my pay"

[Boggy]

I am not sure if this is relavent, but there was a long awkward delay of the moving parts when the olmpic flame was lit at the Sydney Olympics. From memory, this was due to a limit switch not quite making contact and the programmer who was on-line bypassed it to allow the motion to continue.

[kitlane]

The second of Huntingtons Show Control Design Principles is "The Show must go on". A well designed show control system will have redundancy and back-ups built in and it should be simple to take over control manually if necessary.

 

For your list of failures (given that you are including entertainment control systems as well as show control systems) do we include lighting desks crashing or, for example, a momentary power drop-out that crashes the sampler?

[jonhole]

A well designed show control system will have redundancy and back-ups built in and it should be simple to take over control manually if necessary

What happens in a situation where a form of show control has been used to try and cut crew costs?

 

 

For your list of failures (given that you are including entertainment control systems as well as show control systems) do we include lighting desks crashing or, for example, a momentary power drop-out that crashes the sampler?

A lighting desk could crash whether it was part of a show-controlled system, or if being manually operated in a 'normal theatrical' situation. The same, possibly, with the sampler.

 

Many Thanks for everyones replies. I was half expecting lots of stories cursing show control for destroying their show due to it going belly up. However it seems show control set ups, if done properly, are a lot more reliable and 'fail proof' then I thought.

[dbuckley]

Many Thanks for everyones replies. I was half expecting lots of stories cursing show control for destroying their show due to it going belly up.

Only a tiny fraction of the Blue Room population have significant experience of show control.

 

You might like to join the show control yahoo group and look around in there, but I would suggest a solid period of searching and a careful phrasing of the question :P Those folks live and die by the reliability of the systems they create, in many cases running many shows per day for years without failures.

[samrulesapply]

I've seen a few failings in manual changes. One that I clearly remember was a crew member op'ing revolves not checking sliders were clear and bringing down an entire, mind buggeringly large panto set. A ASM was setting props under a table (which saved her from serious injury). She was trapped for nearly 45 minutes.

Automated systems correctly programmed are much more reliable.

[mac.calder]

Re using show control to cut costs.... Show Control should not be used as purely a cost cutting measure.

 

Sure, you can reduce the staffing levels a little bit, but you often need to up your technical requirements for the team you use - because now you have another complete system which needs to be maintained - one which if it goes belly up and you don't have the staff to deal with, will kill your show.

 

There are many reasons to use show control - to ensure that a show runs exactly the same from install to un-install, to allow a complex show to run on skeleton crew (crew should be highly trained in show control systems and understand how their systems tie into it) etc. but with the added complexity of show control on top of the underlying systems, without the right staff, small issues can cripple your show.