Line array v boxes

[Kinell]

I help co-ordinate an event in an open 13th century granite castle, it is basically 50 meters by 25 meters(probably larger but I am guessing), FOH is 20m from stage and behind that is where we host stalls, bar, food etc.

 

Other organisers are being pushed towards a line array rig, I do not think that line array would suit us as well as the 15k of Opus we use, I have been convinced to put a tinkle of delay above the FOH just to give some top at the back (where we do not want volume, just clarity). We don't need any more than 15k as it already rocks.

 

The main part of the crowd is from FOH to the stage towards the end of the night with a few behind just getting to the bar etc.

 

Would a line array benefit us in any way or should I stick with the big boxes (tweaters are about 10 feet above ground level, subs are about 2 feet above floor).

 

I will not be changing our trusted production team this year but with out budget being halved (we are a charitible bunch of hippies) we need to look into alternatives.

 

PMs will be read and replied to. If I can find it there is a site map available.

 

K

[Kevin Ross]

I give it 30 minutes before Rob comes in with his line array rant!

 

 

 

I’m 100% in agreement for me the right rig for the gig is the one that offers the coverage and volume desired within the budget. If the area is 50m long by 25 wide then you could argue that the wide coverage offered by a line array would be too wide and would be throwing sound onto the walls with the associated problems that come with it.

 

 

 

If your rig can offer the coverage then stick with it, I’m sick and tired of line arrays being touted as the sliver bullet to every problem, “ohh it must sound good, it’s a line array……………..”

[Rob_Beech]

What? before 9am? Why I think not.

The only reason I'm up NOW is because some body has decided that AM is a good time to get 8 headsets delivered.

 

Can't really add much to what Kevin Rightly says.

 

At the end of the day the principle of line array is for coherent coupling to battle the inverse square law. Its 50m. You don't need this. You'd be using a small number of boxes per side that wouldn't act as a line array anyway. So the chances are you'd be using line source boxes as a point source system. (this by the way is how probably 95% of line source boxes are used). This makes it inflexible, you have no control of horizontal dispersion. Plus there are not enough boxes in the array to control the dispersion anyway so it will be uncontrolled at those crucial frequencies within the vocal range.

 

Stick with what you've got (or another system similar).

 

One small concern is the system doesn't seem very high.

 

Rob

[i_hate_fisicks]

Get out your best persuading tools and dig yourself in! There's no way that a 'line array' is more suitable for the job here. If you're happy with your current team and the equipment they bring (and you should be, Opus systems are excellent), then there's no reason to change.

 

The main thing that makes me say that a line array is not suitable is because you say the budget has been cut. In my market (and I assume all the others too) line arrays are more expensive than conventional ones because they are the latest cool toy. We've had several clients happy to pay way more money for a line array than they would have done for a trap system because they think it's what they should have, whether or not it was.

[TomM]

You may find yourself able to keep your client happy just by flying your current system. Whilst this is not a line array (obviously!), and has got to be done properly, with appropriate rigging and lifting equipement, it may fulfil your client's mental image of a line array - which often is just a collection of speakers in the air rather than a genuine line source system.

 

This may also give you a better coverage of the area in question, by getting better positioning of the boxes.

 

YMMV

 

T

[Rob_Beech]

Tom raises a good point (no slightly indirect pun intended).

 

"Fulfil the clients mental image of a line array"

 

I like that alot, I shall no doubt refer to that many times in years to come.

[Matt-onstage]

what opus system are you using, AT, psd or cs series? all a ###### to move but sounds great. (owned a cs rig once upon a time ago)

[Kinell]

Thanks for the replies so far guys,

 

I am the client, I liase with the production team from design, power requirements/availability, transport, rigging and going for a beer. It is a couple of other organisers that have beeen told about line array being good that want it.

 

I think we decided last year that the tops were a bit low and that is being sorted this year. As for flying them, not really an option as we have a scaffold stage with a tent on the top. The PA is in wings build on the sides. Budget really is against us so the structure needed to fly them properly is not possible.

 

Matt, not sure what range they are, big, blue and heavy is all I know.

[aidso]

Well if flying a point source systems is out, then I would say so is flying a line system as you will find to get the right coupling and coverage you would prob need a fair height on the top box. I know that with EV xLC you should be looking at 7-8m at least of trim height for the top box.

[Rob_Beech]

A line array ground stacked in this scenario cannot work. The benefits that we see (sometimes) of line sources, their coherent coupling and control of dispersion makes for a VERY loud source at short distances, and a nasty sound.

 

The problem is, all boxes of this design (line or point source) sound nasty close up.

[Kinell]

So far I am only hearing advice against line array, am I just being guided by big box fans or there any genuine line array junkies not giving me advice or hiding in the wings.

 

For this year we are not changing the production team as they know the site and full requirements, it is next year that I have worries about. Budget only being a part of the problem, a semi local company wants to get in and is keen on line array, from everything I have read here and elsewhere I still want big boxes.

 

Once this year is sorted out I might be able to post my requirements so some others can quote for the gig. If you fancy a weekend away just PM me.

[Bobbsy]

Well, I'm pretty agnostic on the topic and think that "line arrays" (acknowledgement to Rob's constant and accurate posting that most LA's aren't really) have their place.

 

However, your post about not being able to fly them and the responses to that are probably key here. In your situation, unless you can get the array up in the air and away from the punters it won't sound good and just won't work properly.

 

I'd guess that's the main reason you aren't getting any pro-line array posts here. Your specific situation means they wouldn't work well.

 

Bob

[StevieR]

...a semi local company wants to get in and is keen on line array, from everything I have read here and elsewhere I still want big boxes.

 

Hmm, sounds like they have invested in a line-array system and want to use it for everything possible. To be honest, we still haven't purchased a line-array system as we rarely have a case where it would suit perfectly. For those times we sub one in. Our main systems are still based around point-source boxes and this allows us much more flexibility with the system design.

 

Out of interest, where is this event taking place?

 

Steve

[aidso]

So far I am only hearing advice against line array, am I just being guided by big box fans or there any genuine line array junkies not giving me advice or hiding in the wings.

 

...

Far from it. Im a big fan of Line arrays having used most of the main systems. I think they work great at what they were designed for. But there is times when they are not the best system. People seem to think, to quote a friend "Line arrays are the silver bullet for sound" which is so not the case. You wouldnt use a hammer to put in a screw would you? I would in you position build a riser for the main stacks and have a stack either side and then have another smaller stack on a platform at about 3m height just behind FOH(reason for height is to get more coverage of the HF.) you wouldnt need a load of subs at the delay just mainly 15s and horns.

[Kinell]

Aidso,

The line array stuff would come with stands/winches so that's not the problem (although I doubt they would be free). Thank you for an honest reply though. Our FOH is about 4m high, I was just going to build a platform on the top and leave it to the sound guys to work out the requirements.

 

Stevie, I've not said where the event is as you never know who reads the forum. I don't want to upset any companies we are dealing with, once things are a little further along I'll post a site plan and some pictures. (If you want to take a guess where then you can PM me).

 

K