JohnE.boy Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Hello all Looking in to purchasing a new controller an have settled on a used Zero88, Fat Frog or Leap Frog. I can get the Leap or for a bit more or get a Fat frog that has only been used 2 times. Where as the Leapfrog is listed as good condition but has scratches and is missing a some screwes at base. I am up grading from the small Showdesigner 1. So the advantages of all the bells and whistles on these boards is new to me. I am jazzed about the increased depth of control the boards will give me But I really dont need more than 12 in-tellies and have no need for or 4 universes. I will run smaller rock shows with maybe 6 movers, 4 scanners, an array of LEDs and conventionals. Much of the time will be spent on the road as well. Does a litte guy like me really need what the Leap Frog has over the Fat Frog?thanks John Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 ...But I really dont need more than 12 in-tellies... Yet. You already have 10. Ask yourself this - "If I buy a few more movers can I also afford to upgrade the desk at the same time or is it better to spend a bit more now?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timtheenchanteruk Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 the fat frog only has one universe, so running 10 fixtures, depending on what they are you may find yourself running short of channels, personally the fat frog will only give you what you have now, the leap will give you room to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphy89 Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Hi John, You already have quite a lot of fixtures running on this desk, and like what has been said if you are thinking about expanding in the future I would spend a bit more cash now. My experiences with Frogs and a lot of movers hasn't been all that great really. Its quite a bit more than you need but I could definetly reccommend a second hand Avo Pearl. They are designed for Live Gigs and have much better functions for movers than the Frogs. Just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart91 Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 The other thing to keep in mind is that you may well find yourself setting LED battens etc. up as fixtures on the desk - it's easy to eat up fixtures even if they don't have an enormous channel count compared to movers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Its quite a bit more than you need but I could definetly reccommend a second hand Avo Pearl. And probably way over his budget. A S/H Pearl will be what, around £3k; a S/H Leap Frog about half that. I don't know where people get it from but there is nothing wrong with using a Frog for live shows and they are perfect for the sort of gigs the OP mentioned. I still use one of the first Frogs out of the factory (the pre-VGA output ones) and there is nothing wrong with them. FFS, he's upgrading from a Showdesigner 1; going to a Frog will be a huge improvement and a sound investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biskit Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Its quite a bit more than you need but I could definetly reccommend a second hand Avo Pearl. And probably way over his budget. A S/H Pearl will be what, around £3k; a S/H Leap Frog about half that. For reference, a Pearl 2000 with case, graphics tablet, mouse, remote etc (all the bits) went for £2150 (equivalent to £1870 ex VAT) on Ebay this morning. Without all the extras one may go for a tad less. If the OP is looking at around the £1500 mark for the Leap Frog as you suggest, and a well toured one by the sounds of it, I'd say the extra few hundred to hang on for a Pearl would be well worth it, and in the short term a couple of sub-hires would cover the extra outlay. I agree with you entirely though in that either Frog desk, or a Pearl, or for that matter a second hand example of any 'real' desk will be a massive upgrade from the Showdesigner and will hold its value far better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Hold on' is the OP looking at one of the old generation Leapfrogs with 24 Fixtures or is he looking at one of the newer Leapfrogs with the 200 fixtures and Ethernet out? Until we know this, we cant really compare. Either way, I'd still go for the Leapfrog as it will offer more expandability in the future. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnE.boy Posted April 8, 2009 Author Share Posted April 8, 2009 Getting a Pearl was my first instinct. But when looking at price and what it is I actually will be running seems a bit overkill. I will rarely light a room larger than say 700 capacity. I can rent one for the bigger shows if and when they come. Just to far out of my budget. Plus, while I have ran Pearls a couple of times I am still new to the large boards it will be a while before I get anywhere near being able to use the full functionality of it. For my next board it just doen not seem realistic. I would love to have the Leap Frog over the Fat, of course. The Leap Frog I am looking at is actually cheaper than the Fat. But they are used. Leap Frog has scratches and missing some screws. The Fat has been used twice and is just sitting in storage. I dont want to buy something that has been on the road, opend up and run the risk of having it start crapping out on me. Especially when I have the option to get a board with little use even tho it may be a older model. I was actually unaware there was previous versions of the Leapfrog. The used one I am looking at does not specify. Is this a software thing? or was the board physical altered?Inteligents bumped from 24 to 200? Looks like I should investigate the Leap series a little more. I am in the states and there does not seem to be a huge Zero88 following here. I would like 2 universes. Is it just 1 universe on the Fat and 2 on the Bull? And, what are the differences in the effects generators between the Fats and Leaps? I guess what it boils down to for me is I want a reliable entery level board to run 150 -200 shows a year. I cant afford a new one or a used Pearl. The used Pearls I see are well over £3500 here in the states. I dont want a Hog or PC based controller eithier. On a side not anyone using Leprecons stuff? Thanks for your help John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 There have been 2 different versions of the Leapfrog. The Original was exactly the same as the Fat Frog but it had 24 fixtures instead of 12. The newer Leapfrog48 and Leapfrog96 have 48 and 96 generic channels respectively and 200 fixtures. They run on ZerOS (Zero88's new OS that powers the Frog 2 and the ORB). It also has USB support, XGA monitor out, Ethernet with support for ArtNet and a PDA Remote. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham NZ Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 John If you can PM me the serial number of the desks I will be able to tell you when they were made and possibly even a little of their history. To reassure you there are many many Frogs of various types in the US. If the Leap needs a little work or some spare screws etc spares are easily available and we have service facilities on both the East and West coast. If you need any more info please feel free to ask. BestGraham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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