Avolites Pearl Titan & Cue stack

[Germaine]

Having upgraded our Pearl to Titan and not played with it yet a dry hire client has asked "How do I do a cue stack??" I've used the Avolites out of hours number and spoken to an incredibly helpfull member of Avolites staff (Even more impressive given it's late on a Sunday), he suggested that as the Diamond 4 doesn't support cue stacks he doubts Titan does, he's making further efforts to find out for definite but I thought I'd ask here as well.

 

p.s. I'm aware that you can run the pearl in classic mode, but this seems like a huge step backwards for a feature that should be standard

[tokm]

Erm, without wishing to sound cocky. Tried the website? More specifically.. the manual?

 

Link

 

Not knowing the Titan OS at all... A quick peruse of the manual suggests its now all done ala'Hog2 style. Where you create a set of steps on a submaster via the chase function. And that gives you the all the options for fade in/out/wait times, etc. But course I could be wrong so hopefully someone (Niclights ) will come along and confirm or correct me.

 

Hope this helps. T

[niclights]

Apologies for the delay...

 

 

Odd that the person you spoke to said the D4 doesn't support cue stacks. That's nonsense. It always has, albeit called 'cue-list'.

 

Unfortunately dedicated cue-list for Titan won't be available until the next version. In the meantime you can use unlinked chase steps in the same way as Classic.

[Germaine]

Erm, without wishing to sound cocky. Tried the website? More specifically.. the manual?

 

Link

 

Sorry RTFM was so obvious I forgot to mention it was the first thing I tried. It's a shame we have to wait until the next version for cue stacks I think I would have prefered waiting a few weeks longer and for it to have been included from V1. But I suppose that's 1 opinion from a user who has theatrical clients as opposed to the bulk of pearl users who are busking r'n'r.

[niclights]

You would have had to wait the same amount of time in either case, so I don't see the difference. These early staged releases allow users to access the majority of Classic functions along with the benefits of many new functions and, crucially, catch any remaining problems. To wait and release all at once increases complexity and potential for faults.

 

Remember that the Classic software never had cue-lists and Titan has had the same unlinked chase step functionality available from the first release. To the best of my knowledge it is the intention that the next release will bring all remaining functions in line with Classic along with additions such as cue-lists.

[Germaine]

You would have had to wait the same amount of time in either case, so I don't see the difference. These early staged releases allow users to access the majority of Classic functions along with the benefits of many new functions and, crucially, catch any remaining problems. To wait and release all at once increases complexity and potential for faults.

 

Remember that the Classic software never had cue-lists and Titan has had the same unlinked chase step functionality available from the first release. To the best of my knowledge it is the intention that the next release will bring all remaining functions in line with Classic along with additions such as cue-lists.

 

As someone who writes software one thing I work very hard on is making sure I never remove functionality it just confuses and irritates the end user, occasionally this means that when I add a new feature I have to spend the same amount of coding time again in making sure the old functionality now interacts correctly. I guess what I'm saying is why prioritise these glorious new features without getting the foundation right first. Please don't get me wrong I'm sure there were logical reasons for this but I hope Avolites are fully aware of just how much more important old functionality is over new functionality when deciding where to allocate their developers.

 

You say classic never had cue list but this is what I would call Theatre stack mode, does Titan have theatre stack and in fact all of this discussion is just a mis understanding?

[niclights]

Fair point re Theatre Stack. But you can still achieve basic cue-list (or whatever you want to call it) via unlinked chase.

 

Everything was prioritised or it would forever be in development. But, as I see it, theatre stack was never particularly popular and was something that required a different approach, which needed time.

 

From the beginning I have concentrated on stability as main priority, followed by ability to achieve everything I could with Classic. Indeed, part of the initial exercise involved re-creating a Classic show. Not only was I able to do this but new functions made much of this easier and gave me new powerful new options (for example virtual dimming). The missing functions were mainly things that might impede programming speed, but not capability or operation. I have never gone back since the very first build and all feedback I have received directly has been positive.

 

The next version should complete all remaining Classic functions along with big improvements and new features. And, as you pointed out, Classic is always available in the meantime, should your clients prefer it.

[Germaine]

Hi, My clients words to me on the phone before my original post were "Every man and his dog knew that the pearls theatre stack was rubbish, but at least it had one",

 

I did search the web pretty extensively before calling tech support and didn't find any mention of this feature being removed,(I'm happy to admit I could have missed it, but can say 100% I was actively searching for information for at least 30 minutes that I could not find). If this information was readily available I might be kicking myself for hiring the pearl to the end user as opposed to feeling a little let down.

 

I applaud the fact that stability and recreating a classic show were your prioritise, but still feel that as the desk is marketed as being useable in theatres that taking out that feature wasn't the best move.

 

As I said I have not had the chance to play with the new software yet and therefore can't personally comment, however my end client does feel that something a simple as a CMY rainbow effect is now a 3 step process instead of 1.

 

The client is also reporting unusably sluggish behaviour when switching to classic mode which I know has been covered on here before. I have asked him to check that the desk is running the latest version of software but as it was upgraded at Avo London on Feb 9th I hoped this would be the case. I think added to the fact that when programming across several different pages clearing down the desk is a nightmare has lead to a very annoyed client.

 

To end on some positives cause this all seems very negative, I hope that the up most care be taken to not remove features, if that means we don't get the new functionality as quickly so be it. When features need to logically be removed for reasons mentioned above it needs to be made very public. I remember trying to find the colour picker on our new desk after it was advertised so well on the Avo website only to be told that I need to wait a few months before the functionality is enabled. My point here is one of marketing advertising and education needing to be accurate and appropriately informative. I would be so happy if the cue stack was re-written with theatre users in mind and contributing to the development, it would complete the missing link on what is/was/will be an amazing desk.

 

I have a lot of faith in Avolites which is why I stock their products, the fact that I have managed to get support at this time of night is all any user should need to know about their excellent customer service, however I can think of several occasions when release dates are just pushed further and further back, features are advertised that don't exist and basic essential functionality is missing before software is released. I'm sure the staff at Avo work bloody hard to make things work but would an additional member of staff on the development team help meet those deadlines etc etc.

[niclights]

Given that Classic was there to use for your client, I find it difficult to accept some of those comments. If your console had been upgraded to Titan without the option of using the older software in these situations, then it would be a different matter. But, unless you had suggested to your client that it could do something it could not then in what way were they let down? The manual is available online and, while it does contain some ambiguities and mistakes, I'm sure it does not mention Theatre Stack!

 

Of course, it slowing down in Classic would be a reasonable criticism. I don't know what the final conclusion or solution was, but Avo are certainly aware of the reports here. It's not something I've seen.

 

It's important to understand that no functions have been taken out. The software is a new project and so it is merely a case of order of inclusion. As your client confirms, original implementation of stacks was poor. The importance of this function and the requirements of theatre users has been recognised and cue-lists in the next version will hopefully answer many of your prayers. Clearing presets will also be available in the next version.

 

Could you explain the difficulties with CMY rainbow? It is essentially no different to Classic: Select fixtures, [shape Gen], [Colour], [CMY rainbow]. There is the extra [colour] sub-section, but this just removes having to scroll through pages to find the shape you wanted. Additionally, all these menus are searchable. It is true that at the moment all shapes are relative, which is a problem. Next version brings in additional phase and offset controls.