Needing some help....

[Ali2580]

Hi everyone. Sorry if this is an amateur question or if it has been asked before but couldn't find anything on the BR about it.

 

I was at a meeting about a show last night and the producer was telling me what he wanted. He said he was having a gauze at the back of the stage which he wanted projections onto. The theatre is a small 70 seater so we don't have much room FOH.

 

He basically said he is wanting a projector to show pictures (fireplace, woodlands) to sort of set the scene onto the gauze as there is not much of a set on purpose. However, I have no experience on projection and was wondering what is the best possible way to go about this? Also, where to get equipment from?

 

I am located in Tayside, Scotland and the theatre is the Abbey Theatre in Arbroath.

 

Thanks if anyone replies

[mac.calder]

What you need is directly related to what you can spend...

 

Ideally, a media server going into a relatively high output projector.

 

When specifying a projector, you want to look at a few main things: Price (duh), output (the higher the better in most cases), the throw you have available (distance from where you can mount the projector to the back wall), and the size of the projection surface.

 

Unfortunately, stages tend to be a lot wider than they are high so you often have to waste a lot of the vertical pixels, or contort the image a lot digitally, so take your back wall's width as the constant to determine lense and throw distance needed - both Barco and Christy provide lense calculators - as do many other manufacturers.

 

Once you have the brightest projector you can afford, you need to look at playback... There are a number of options - something like powerpoint will work... it is messy, but it will work. You could write a DVD (be careful to make sure your talent stick to their timing though here, and you may also need to look at hiring a professional DVD player so that menues do not display on screen when you hit play), or the "best" option is to hire a media server. Generally a media server has the option of being controlled by a DMX lighting console and allows you to stretch, squash, pull, push, fade, flash and twist multiple pieces of content to create a 'collage' of media, with all of the timing controlled along with the lighting.

 

The sky is the limit with video at the moment... It is the purse strings which will pull you up at the last minute.

 

As for making and getting content - a still camera and photoshop can create some really whacky sets, or you can pay for media from a number of stock footage suppliers (not cheap) or you can film and edit your own.... Again, it is largely dependant on $$$, time available and the look you are going for.

[GridGirl]

I'm not going to add anything to the excellent advice you've already received on the projector, but I notice that you're planning on projecting onto a gauze. Just be aware (and I apologize if you already know this) that projecting onto a gauze will give you a double image - one on the gauze and one on whatever solid surface is behind it. If you want this, then no problems, but if you've not planned for it and the nearest solid surface is not immediately behind the gauze, then you may well end up with an effect that isn't what you want. I speak from bitter experience - worked on a show where the designer had planned to project onto a gauze, not realising it would give the double image (and hadn't asked anybody in the technical department!), and the wall behind the gauze was a good couple of metres back - it led to an absolute hell of a production week where we had to try and find a fabric that would hold the image yet still bleed through like a gauze when lit correctly. So you may want to be careful of that!

[Dodgecaliber]

My 2p worth would be to hire perhaps 2 or 3 projectors and use software to blend them, closest to the gauze as possible (Look for something with a really good keystone).

 

It all depends on your stage lighting however. The only other option would be a media server but they cost megabucks! If you have the money and room in the grid, look at a "roadie" projector or pretty much anything with a high output.

 

Im in Glasgow, so if you need any help with this one PM me! (Im an LX & Visual tech)

[Ali2580]

Thanks for all the great replies so far.

 

There is nowhere locally that would hire media serves without having to go to Edinburgh/Glasgow and even then, I fear the price may be too high for a two week show? I am unexperienced at using media servers so would have no idea on how to set it all etc.

 

Stage diemensions: Width - 7.35m/24ft, Depth - 4.25m/14ft

 

The gauze is to have a wooden flat behind it, I believe to be painted black.

 

I did have a wee discussion with the producer last night and he said (if possible) make up a powerpoint and run it off onto the projecter of just still images however the lighting box is a fair distance from the stage and auditorium and it is sound proofed so it's more of a case of running a cable through the theatre to reach a laptop but is this possible at all? That was his suggestion but I think media servers may cost a fair bit of money.

 

Most of the show is a general flood stage across the whole stage, some points being just Stage Right or Stage Left area only and another point being just 5 spots. He is also using smoke so I'm guessing it would need to be a strong output from the projecter to ensure the image is still seen on the gauze?

 

Thanks for all the great help!

[bruce]

The only way to be sure if your projector is up to the job is to try it and see. It may be fine, it may look rubbish...

 

When you say you want to project onto a gauze - do you really mean this? Do you need the transparency for other purposes? Projecting onto a white cyc is much easier...

[Ali2580]

When you say you want to project onto a gauze - do you really mean this? Do you need the transparency for other purposes? Projecting onto a white cyc is much easier...

 

Well I read through the script earlier and with the notes I got last night he is not using the gauze for anything else other than to project onto. As I believe the flat is being put up and the gauze is going straight infront of it with no gap between the two.

[bruce]

well, if you use a more solid cloth - or project onto a white flat, you'll need much less intensity. But it'll be a different effect. This may or may not be what your director is looking for....

 

You need to explain, and perhaps demo to him/her, the options available.

[mac.calder]

It all depends on your stage lighting however. The only other option would be a media server but they cost megabucks! If you have the money and room in the grid, look at a "roadie" projector or pretty much anything with a high output.

 

Huh? I don't see how a media server is another option for a multi-screen blend? Multi-screen blends are (generally) expensive and (generally) far more difficult to set up and (generally) take place one step later in the chain (the main exception being a system like watchout... although that is still more expensive than a media server as a general rule and usually more difficult as far as the initial setup goes).

 

As for your worry about setting up a media server, they are fairly simple to operate (as a general rule). You load it up with all of your content, and connect a DMX line from your desk to the media server. You then connect the media server to the projector using a VGA cable. They all differ a little bit in operation, but 10 to 15 minutes of playing will have you putting together scenes like a pro. If you can find a rental house that has them, Axons are generally a very cheap and user friendly media server. However if your lighting desk is not designed to handle moving lights, you will have a hard time of it as DMX is the only way to control it.

 

As for getting video to the projector - Video balancing transformers are not that expensive to hire and will allow you to send VGA over Cat5 cable up to about 150m, however if the total distance from the booth to the projector is less than 30m you can usally just run a VGA cable... some laptops have very weak VGA outs - in that case, a vga distribution amp is a nice cheap (to hire) piece of equiptment which will give the signal that extra push it needs.

[Ali2580]

However if your lighting desk is not designed to handle moving lights, you will have a hard time of it as DMX is the only way to control it.

 

It's a Strand 200 48 Series that the theatre has for a desk which I guess eliminates media servers. :blink:

[pumphouse]

Ali,

 

All the advice you have recieved above is good advice. Looking at your profile, I would guess that this is for an amateur show, and that your financial resources will be rather limited. Hiring a 'Roadie' or similar class of projector and a media server - whilst arguably delivering a very good solution is likely to be outside of your means. Forgive me if I have got this completely wrong.

 

It is important to set expectations of producers/directors wanting to use projection for scenery. At low budgets, it is not often as effective as they think it will be. I have done this is the past, in an amateur environment, mostly by begging/borrowing business grade projectors (bigger than the tiddly portable ones though) and running powerpoint slides through them. This works to a point, but panoramic projection across the cyc probably won't work unless you have big budget bucks.

 

You also need to consider if the actors will get in the way of the projector (which they usually do) and then it looks a bit pants with a hillside on their face.

 

Lighting-wise, you will need to design the lighting carfully to avoid direct hits on the backdrop from the theatre lanterns. A small lantern can quite easily wipe out the image from a big projector if they are both shining on the same surface. Side lighting works for this application, but may not work for your show. It can work with careful focussing though and all depends on the height you have available. The venue I have run this in has a low grid height so is more of a challenge.

 

Don't promise the earth to the producer, and ideally demo the kit with some sample images and 'real' stage lighting before the get-in to save yourself some grief!

 

HTH

 

Jason

[Ali2580]

Ali,

 

All the advice you have recieved above is good advice. Looking at your profile, I would guess that this is for an amateur show, and that your financial resources will be rather limited. Hiring a 'Roadie' or similar class of projector and a media server - whilst arguably delivering a very good solution is likely to be outside of your means. Forgive me if I have got this completely wrong.

 

It is important to set expectations of producers/directors wanting to use projection for scenery. At low budgets, it is not often as effective as they think it will be. I have done this is the past, in an amateur environment, mostly by begging/borrowing business grade projectors (bigger than the tiddly portable ones though) and running powerpoint slides through them. This works to a point, but panoramic projection across the cyc probably won't work unless you have big budget bucks.

 

You also need to consider if the actors will get in the way of the projector (which they usually do) and then it looks a bit pants with a hillside on their face.

 

Lighting-wise, you will need to design the lighting carfully to avoid direct hits on the backdrop from the theatre lanterns. A small lantern can quite easily wipe out the image from a big projector if they are both shining on the same surface. Side lighting works for this application, but may not work for your show. It can work with careful focussing though and all depends on the height you have available. The venue I have run this in has a low grid height so is more of a challenge.

 

Don't promise the earth to the producer, and ideally demo the kit with some sample images and 'real' stage lighting before the get-in to save yourself some grief!

 

HTH

 

Jason

 

Jason, thanks for all the info! It is indeed an amateur show meaning that we are trying to cut down on any budget spent at all, we already have to hire in a couple of lanterns so we wouldn't want to spend mega bucks on a media server and better desk just for a two week show.

 

There is little room to place a projector and as you say, the chances are the actors will probably get in the way of it.

 

I nipped up earlier today just to have a wee look of any possible means of mounting a projector, the ideal solution would be to stick it on a fly bar and project down onto the cyc or gauze or whatever running a powerpoint off a laptop but does a such thing exist? I wasn't too sure if it did.

 

Thanks again everyone

[pumphouse]

Rigging on a fly bar on stage will probably mean you have a very steep projection angle, unless you drop it in so it is visible. Most projectors have some keystone adjustment to allow off-axis projection but this is quite limited and if you end up very steep then the image will be distorted.

 

Running off powerpoint should work fine - I have done this before but it can catch you out.

 

Again, best advice is borrow a projector if you can and have play about before the day. Many producers/directors see projection as an 'easy' solution to having lots of scenes and not needing to build a set, but the reality is that it isn't easy or cheap to do well!

 

Also consider that you'll have a grey square from the projector in your blackouts unless you have a projector with a shutter or other device infront of the lens to douse it. LCD projectors (the more common type) are worse for this than DLP ones but it shouldnlt be forgotten.

 

Good luck!

 

Jason

[AHYoung]

from my view id replace the guaze if its for use as a screen with a cyc , canvas, filled cloth, whatever as unless you need the guaze for a particular visual effect, its a rubbish projection surface, its also not very efficient so if you are limited in budget, you loose a lot of the light produced.

 

You will stuggle to fill the back of the stage with the limited depth you have using a single projector as you cant generally get nearer than 125% the width of the image using front projection, that puts you into above the audience and means the cast will shadow the screen unless you rig the projector well above the screen which wont work if there is a pros. You do have the option of using 2 panasonic 5700s to give a blended image in a ratio of 7.5:3 ish as they will do the blending onboard which will half the throw distance, but its not that easy to set up for a novice and obviously you are hiring 2 projectors

 

another piece of advice is if you dont have experience with media servers, dont bother, use powerpoint, it wont do anything clever, but it will work and you will understand it .

 

you can also run a fair length of vga cable without problems, we supply 50m looms than include power plus extensions in 20m lengths, the power supply avoids the issue of ground loops as the source and projector can run of the same supply, and its pretty standard to run a 70m cable without any issues. We have all the cat 5 converters etc, but untill you get past 100m, its not that much of a problem in my experience...