InEar Monitoring system?

[djmatthill]

Hi ..

 

I was wondering if I could pick your brains on an inear monitoring system.

 

The situation is iv just started to do the PA for my local church , quite a small room 15x10m(ish) high ceiling church building..

 

The resident worship band consists of Keyboard , 2 guitars , Drums/Toms , 2 singers (one plays guitar).

 

They currently have a small FOH PA which while not being brilliant does the job (just about). The main problem is they Have 3 large horrible Wedge monitors on stage which are causing problems because.

 

1) they are cheap budget nasty sounding boxes.

2) The musicians insist they are turned up loud

3) the stage and building are only small and the audience end up hearing more of the monitor mix than you do the FOH mix,,

 

Iv only just come on to the scene for this church and have suggested we try INEAR monitoring, Now as always the budget is about £100..

 

Heres what im thinking :

 

I was going to suggest buying Head Phone amp LINK

 

A Mini amp 400.

 

With the four outputs Giving the Drummer , Keyboard and 2 Guitarists a Wired headphone monitor mix. Fed from the AUX outputs from the desk...

 

I thought the wired approach would be OK given the Musicians DONT move about on stage at all..

 

The lead singer could either have a wireless Inear (Any suggestions on cheap but reliable ones please ???) or have her own Wedge monitor.....

 

I was hoping to get away with using some "in ear style" (ipod type) headphones, any suggestions on makes or models Cheap Models I could use please...

 

Do you think my idea could work ? It seems to come in at budget too

 

...

 

 

 

 

Any help greatly received

 

Matt

[djmatthill]

While we are on the subject of church Audio , Can anyone recomend a Decent but reasonably cheap Lectern/Pulpit Mic .. Iv had quite good results with SM57 in thed past BUT the only problem I have is the 57`s Uni Directional Pickup pattern. Possibly need a condenser with a decent Omni Mick up Pattern ??? Any advice gladly received ..

 

Budget is under £100 Max... :blink:

Thanks Matt

[JennyHANMER]

Hi ..

 

I was wondering if I could pick your brains on an inear monitoring system.

 

The situation is iv just started to do the PA for my local church , quite a small room 15x10m(ish) high ceiling church building..

 

The resident worship band consists of Keyboard , 2 guitars , Drums/Toms , 2 singers (one plays guitar).

 

They currently have a small FOH PA which while not being brilliant does the job (just about). The main problem is they Have 3 large horrible Wedge monitors on stage which are causing problems because.

 

1) they are cheap budget nasty sounding boxes.

2) The musicians insist they are turned up loud

3) the stage and building are only small and the audience end up hearing more of the monitor mix than you do the FOH mix,,

 

Iv only just come on to the scene for this church and have suggested we try INEAR monitoring, Now as always the budget is about £100..

 

Heres what im thinking :

 

I was going to suggest buying Head Phone amp LINK

 

A Mini amp 400.

 

With the four outputs Giving the Drummer , Keyboard and 2 Guitarists a Wired headphone monitor mix. Fed from the AUX outputs from the desk...

 

I thought the wired approach would be OK given the Musicians DONT move about on stage at all..

 

The lead singer could either have a wireless Inear (Any suggestions on cheap but reliable ones please ???) or have her own Wedge monitor.....

 

I was hoping to get away with using some "in ear style" (ipod type) headphones, any suggestions on makes or models Cheap Models I could use please...

 

Do you think my idea could work ? It seems to come in at budget too

 

...

 

 

 

 

Any help greatly received

 

Matt

 

Samson do a good range of wireless ear monitoring units. I use one in my band : JENNY

[johndenim]

You have a budget of £100 for EVERTHING?

 

I would be surprised if you could get a better sound for the band using el cheapo in ear's designed for ipods and the like.

And wired as well?

The band would surely struggle with this.

Is there no way you could eq the wedges and/or position them differently?

Either that or try to raise a bit more spondolies! :blink:

[Simon Lewis]

Use the suggested headphone amp and suitable ear buds, but be careful with levels - there isn't any limiting in that system.

Also, "cheap" and "wireless" aren't two words that really sit comfortably with each other, especially if £100 is your maximum outlay.

 

If you can stretch the budget and you are aware of the implications of buying any UHF radio gear iin these times uncertainty over spectrum, then the Shure hybrid bodypack IEM allows you to use it as a wired IEM now and to add the radio transmitter later.

[Heapsy]

Hi Matt,

How many auxes have you got available?

Your system would work but everyone would get the same mix, this isn't to much of an issue when using wedges as people can still hear other things acoustically. However when using IEMs people can only hear what you are sending them and tend to be a bit more picky (and rightly so!)

If you had enough auxes to be able give people there own mix could I suggest going down the mini mixer route?

Yes a few mixer at £40 each would put you over budget but it could be phased in over time, perhaps start with the drummer and keyboard player then move on from there. This would give each muso control of their in ear level at their position and if used for vocalists you can split mics into them so they can adjust the levels of their own voice compared to the mix you are sending them. I have used this many times before with great success.

With regards to ear phones you obviously get what you pay for, I wouldn't want to use ear phones that someone else had used the week before and with out paying for some 'professional' IEMs you won't have the option of being able to change the foams. I would recommend asking each muso to provide their own, this not only takes the financial burden away from your budget but ensures hygiene.

I have been involved with a lot of church installs and find that the major problem is well meaning people wanting to implement a new system regardless of budget which results in a low quality solution which actually does more harm than good and has to be replaced within a few years. Its important to look at the big picture and think what can I achieve with this money now and how will that tie in with where we want to be in 5 years time.

Hope that helps,

 

Mark

[djmatthill]

While we are on the subject of church Audio , Can anyone recomend a Decent but reasonably cheap Lectern/Pulpit Mic .. Iv had quite good results with SM57 in thed past BUT the only problem I have is the 57`s Uni Directional Pickup pattern. Possibly need a condenser with a decent Omni Mick up Pattern ??? Any advice gladly received ..

 

Budget is under £100 Max... :blink:

Thanks Matt

 

Hi ,

Just to confirm the the £100 budget applies to the wired in ear options. The wireless system has its own budget of £200 :D WOW ** laughs out loud **

...

 

 

If I went down the Mini mixer route , where would I feed the inputs from ?? Would it be the insert outputs on main FOH mixer ???

[Heapsy]

If I went down the Mini mixer route , where would I feed the inputs from ?? Would it be the insert outputs on main FOH mixer ???

 

No it would come from you aux outs which is why I asked how many you had...

You would still do a monitor mix for each send, does that make sense?

 

Mark

[MarkPAman]

Have a look at Behringer's HA4700 which will give you 4 separate mixes (fed from 4 aux sends) from one unit & not stretch your budget too far.

 

In fact, it will let you send in a general mix and/or ambient mic as well, allowing each musician to mix these in (or not) as they want.

[Shez]

Iv had quite good results with SM57 in thed past BUT the only problem I have is the 57`s Uni Directional Pickup pattern. Possibly need a condenser with a decent Omni Mick up Pattern ???

 

Could you elaborate on the problems you've experienced? An omni mic in a pulpit in a reverberant environment would normally be the last thing you would want.

[aidso]

Second on the behringer unit. Means you can send each muso their own mix which when you are using IEMs is very important.

[Rob_Beech]

But only if the desk has enough aux's.

 

You'd need 1 aux for each person whilst leaving enough for effects, delay speakers, and anything else you might put them through. hearing loop?

 

That suddenly makes it quite an expensive desk with probably the cheapest 6Aux desk being the mix wizard at over £700.

 

Try the wired option sharing the mix, at best you've saved money, at worst you'll have to add to it when funds become available.

 

The HA4700 is ideal for 4 mixes. It also drives down to 8ohms which alot of headphone amps don't do. This makes it more friendly for consumer earphones such as those you'd expect to find plugged into an ipod or other similar device.

 

Wireless. Thomann do their own range, I've got some and they're really good for the money. Be aware they are only selectable through channel 70, it's therefore free to use but you can soon run out of frequencies especially if you have A) no license and more wireless kit and/or B) All your wireless kit is ch70 only. They WERE about £160 when I bought them, though the exchange rate might have pushed them up beyond your wireless budget.

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

One additional note on the HA400 (little one).

 

It is a STEREO input. NOT a balanced input. If you go down this route make sure you're wiring configurations suit this.

[djmatthill]

Thanks Rob ,

 

We ve only got a cheap beringher desk ...

Only got 2 aux outputs...

 

Can you recomend a cheap decent lectern / pulpit mic ?

 

Matt