paulears Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Spent a moment trying to track down a payment I made with my business credit card on the credit card company web site. Came across an entry for an on-line betting website who had taken £90 on the 23rd. Incensed, I phoned and reported unauthorised access and the lady at the other end said she'd put a stop on the account but "Had I noticed the other transaction from the same people on the 26th" I hadn't and saw £300 just a bit further down - then realised that some scroat had got the credit card number and put a bet on........ and WON! So with the stop on my account, I'm £210 better off! This is quite beyond me - how did they intend getting their winnings? They can't now, and I don't appear to have lost out and security is restored. How very weird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 The bet was proabably a "test" transaction to see if the card was still valid/active. They weren't expecting to win! Theoretically, you should give the money back to the betting company, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Well - I reckon if my card had a bet all on it's own, and I won, then it's mine! However, I bet they ask for it back. Just had many emails - I forgot I used the card for loads of regular payments and these all have been stopped too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Yeah, but the bookies has been defrauded just as you have.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Only if the bank try to reclaim the initial withdrawal, otherwise surely it is just a fair bet (albeit by some unknown neerdowell (hmmm - google chrome's dictionary clearly doesn't have a very good vocabulary!!)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipstream Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 In my last few experiences the bank don't contact the defrauded retailer - after a fight I get my money back and they forget all about it. No effort to track down the wrongdoer at all. retailers did not even get a charge back, so never knew I was not the cards user. I suspect they will refund your loss and keep the winnings themselves, they have a sloppy system called a suspension account which picks up over payments wrongly deposited cheques and bacs payments, seems very profitable if you overlook a payment that does not arrive where you expect it to. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaffa Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Have had similar experiences, last Xmas my card was used while I was in Hospital, the card was safely at home. After reporting it a statement arrived showing that at least £950.00 had been taken, with £150.00 going to the same restaurant over two nights, Luckily for me I knew the owner of the restaurant who helped in tracking down the thief, but not before the £800.00 had gone. It turned out that the card had been cloned at a local supermarket, unfortunately for me, and about 60 other people, we didn't get our money back, despite a police investigation, subsequent arrest, trial, conviction & deportation, The bank just didn't want to know, 11 months later following a court case against the bank I now have £800.00 back and have had to accept the loss of the £150.00. (Not including what it cost to take the bank to court). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 IANAL.. and all that. Does ANY betting transaction constitute a contract? ISTR that it doesn't; how that might relate to the question of giving the win back, I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonino Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 there will be a separate contract between the card services and the merchant though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swizzuk Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 IMO, whether the bet was placed using a legitimately owned card or not, Money was placed and the result was a win. Therefor I would say the money is yours to keep.If you had placed that bet yourself, you would still keep the money. Its only as if another party was acting on your behalf. The question is, had you not won, would the bookies be giving your £90 back via the credit card company or do the credit card companies just take from their insurance for this sort of thing and give you your £90 back from that. Therefore the bookies would still have your £90. If the card had been used to purchase say a TV set, the fraudulent individual would have a TV set, the retailer would have say, your £200. Now if the credit company gets £200 from the retailer then the retailer is £200 in debt as their are missing an item of stock.The money comes back from the insurance companies for this sort of thing, the retailer is no worse, they sold a tv for £200 as far as they are concerned. Now I'm no expert on this sort of thing, however this is how I believe it works. Correct me if I am wrong, but it just seems logical to me. In your instance, I think you just got yourself a free tv set! That is what insurance is for. IMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Well, I've just had the fraud lot on the phone - the account's closed, new card on the way - BUT they'll simply wipe off my account all trace of the betting transactions - these get reapplied to the betting firm - so they and me are not affected at all. A fraud just gets repaired. So I don't get to keep the winnings, it is an illegal bet, so they don't have to honour it, Interestingly, what actually happens is that all my tranactions for the past year get put onto a database along with every other one, and then any patterns show up, hopefully allowing them to isolate where the card details were taken. At this point I could get to know, but only if the trader prosecute the employee. The credit card people tell me that they cannot require this, and what usually happens is that they get fired and the trader accepts the loss - many having insurance against this crime carried out by employees. Taking credit card payents is so important, that losing money on dodgy deals is better than being blacklisted and not being able to trade. Most don't want the publicity a prosecution brings, so the credit card company recover the money, the victim does too, and only the trader loses! Funny system, isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I now live in Spain. Used to live in the UK.The bank I bank with in Spain has a system set up that whenever my debit card or credit card is used I get a text message on my mobile phone. Usually within seconds of it being used.Should I ever loose my card, have it stolen or cloned and somebody uses it I will know where, when and how much was taken.OK it won't stop it's first fraudulent use but a phone call will quickly stop any further use.Why don't UK banks have a similar system?CheersGerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djw1981 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 The phone networks would collapse in the New Year Sales! IIRc One UK bank used to offer the service to text you if any pending transaction would push you over your overdraft limit. The issues seemed to be that they had a standing monthlky charge on the account to cover services such as this, and so many people in the Uk are used to 'free' current account banking but higher charges that the offer was not that popular. Maybe a bank which offered such services, at a cost, but was more flexible with its other charges would be popular in these lean times. Today a cash point ate my debit card because, according to my bank 'card services' department "The bank which operates that cashpoint was worried about the security of that cashpoint and to avoid a potential fraud it closed down and retained your card" Ok.....except 1. Why not close the cashpoint before I started my transaction?2. If there is a skimming device (and I didn't see anything which looked like one) why allow me to put the card in and enter my PIN before shutting down? The cashpoint was in a bank wall..... thankfully my own bank is now open Saturday's a mile away so I Went there to get it sorted over the phone. still takes 7 days for a new card to come, but they were able to give me cash based on photo ID and my having a credit card with the same bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutley Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 While I was working on the cruise ship, I left my dad in charge of my bank and credit card accounts, and one day he asked me about one from an internet p0rn company in America! They'd charged me about £18 each month for three months. Quite an embarassing conversation with my dad later, and a VERY expensive phone call to my bank from New Zealand (75p/min for 6 mins!) the charges were refunded, and further debits from them stopped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnno Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Spent a moment trying to track down a payment I made with my business credit card on the credit card company web site. Came across an entry for an on-line betting website who had taken £90 on the 23rd. Incensed, I phoned and reported unauthorised access....... There was an article in today's paper about people using "sleepwalking" as a defence in criminal trials (including murder!). Are you sure the access was unauthorised :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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