david.elsbury Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 Hi allRecommending some replacement gear for a friend's church. I am aware that some mics work better with certain speakers than others, this due to the response pattern of both the mic and the speaker. The church has a pair of JBL 15" EONs, and I'm tempted to spec SM58s as they are near indesctructible, however I also know that the JBL EONs have a rather... unique... sound... Suggestions, please? Cheers :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 As for the original question, this is an interesting way of looking at things. I've always worked along the lines of "EQ the feed to the speakers to make them sound good in the room" and "match the mic to the voice (or instrument)". However, I can see the logic of what you're asking. If a mic and speaker both have similar shortcomings (an upper mid peak for example) the result could be a harsh sound (at best) and lots of extra feedback (at worst). Frankly, I'd still be tempted to "tame" the Eons with some GEQ (and I'm sure we all have some "starting point" EQ settings we use with SM58s). Even though I see exactly what you're saying in the original post, there must be literally millions of SM58s in use with JBL Eon speakers out there. Given my "druthers" I'd probably specify Audix mics (OM5 or OM6) rather than the Shures but these will be harder to get and more expensive in New Zealand...but they'd be just as tough and long lasting as well as sounding a lot better. On the other hand, Sennheiser would also sound better but probably not last as long. On the other other hand, if I could change anything, it would be the Eons and keep the 58s! Hmmmm....3 and a bit paragraphs and I've probably just confused the issue. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted November 27, 2008 Author Share Posted November 27, 2008 No, it hasn't confused the issue at all :)Ideally I'd replace the EONs with something like Mackies, especially as I am suggesting that long term they install a pair of delayed speakers halfway down the hall, plus adding something as balcony fill.The problem with this idea is that then I have to find something to do with the EONs. Stage wedges... well, they may be a step up from the Peavey wedge that is currently there, however I'll still have the same problem of taming with an EQ.I am looking to get them a pair of powered cabinets for their ladies meetings, and anything outside, but was rather wanting something with an inbuilt radio receiver (which rules the EONs out) I'm not averse to the idea of a graphic EQ, however unfortunately in this case the existing mics are fairly desperate for replacement, so I'd say that gets done first, and the EQ later as somewhat of an afterthought. I'll look into the idea of the Audix mics, the other issue of course is that in the event of one dying, it's going to be a tad more tricky to replace it with another of the same (certainly, every man and his dog hires/sells 58's) and it really would be better to replace with more of the same. I also have the delightful issue, where they are trying to get 2/3 people to sing into one mic, in front of a drumkit (!) so I think that a drum screen will be in order too... We will see where this one progesses. I suspect I'll borrow some 58's and take them there one Sunday and just try them out. Did I mention the mixer has fixed 3 band EQ only? B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound In Gloucestershire Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 also which EONS are they? there are a few different 15" eons, are they powered or unpowered, also are they the G2 ones? Totally different animals IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundboynz Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 oceania audio have audix OM5's for hire, I do believe if you wanna try before you buy..... they used to be in taylors road mornington and they're either still there or they may have moved recently. anyway - http://www.oceania-audio.co.nz/ talk to Francis or Neil in the hire dept. re the Eons, I'd just flick them off on trade me for whatever you can get - imo they're not worth the real estate they sit on, let alone the power they consume. mackie srm450's would be a much better bet, or some RCF's for a slightly cheaper option. but certainly a decent 31 band eq would be a massive help as well, considering that you're dealing with fixed freq. 3 band eq. mackie console perchance? have fun..... oh, with the drum and vocal thing, easiest fix is to get the drummer to set up off to one side of the stage / performance area and play sideways across the stage. then the mic will be off axis and pick up substantially less. there was never a rule written which said the drums need to be upstage centre :unsure: and if he / she doesn't like it then just show him any sigur ros live video. he'll get the point. whee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndenim Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Ideally I'd replace the EONs with something like Mackies, Did I mention the mixer has fixed 3 band EQ only? :unsure: Mackies IMO are NOT a step up from JBL eons. A para or graphic eq can be put into the side chain here, what's the app David?Only vocals or speech? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted November 28, 2008 Author Share Posted November 28, 2008 Thanks Soundboynz, I have just come back from an Oceania packin and will be going back for the bump out tonight, so if I see Neil I will inquire then. Mixer is not a Mackie (thankfully...) it's an oldschool Yamaha MX200E 16ch. It's probably worth pointing out for any future contributions to this topic that I'm no stranger to sound. A 31band EQ (a few, in fact) are high on the list of recommendations, but there's a few things I'd like them to get before that point, mics being one of them, so I thought that if I could, I'd recommend something that works "okay" with the JBLs. The band is over to the right hand side of the sanctuary, and they therefore play in a sort of diagonal fashion towards the centre of the room. So no matter where the drummer is, there will be spill into the vox mics. Apparantly they have two regular drummers, one is quite capable of drumming softly, the other not so much. John, application is ... well... everything! Vocals, keys, guitar and speech. It's a methodist church, so while not the drums, bass and screaming guitar solos I am used to, still a bit more than just speech. (PS, yes Oceania have just moved, to Rosebank Road.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Ah, the old MX200. I hate to admit it but, way, way back an MX200-16 was the first mixer I actually owned (as opposed to "used at work"). It spent many years on the input/output to my computer....and the power supply corner was a favourite resting place for any kittens in the vicintiy. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/Bob...nmixersmall.jpg However, I feel your pain in terms of the EQ. Not only does the MX have three fixed frequencies but the centre points are just plain "wrong" and the Q far to wide for most things. On the plus side, if you can borrow an OM5 or two to test, that's good news. I think you should find that the Audix will "tame" the Eons a bit....and eventually when you add some proper EQ the results should be even better. My one fear was your earlier comment about getting people to effectively share the mics...the pattern and sensitivity of the Audix won't help on this I'm afraid. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesperrett Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 My one fear was your earlier comment about getting people to effectively share the mics...the pattern and sensitivity of the Audix won't help on this I'm afraid. If you want a wider pattern yet retain a similar sound to the OM5 then see if you can find a Beyer M300. They're no longer made so you will have to look for one used. Cheers James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted November 28, 2008 Author Share Posted November 28, 2008 Heh, it won't be just the one that I'm looking for, it'll be 6... bugger that they aren't made anymore (I don't think secondhand will be much of an option, let alone the fact that I have to present my views to them, and if they decide to go for it, to get the money together and make a purchase) Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmyP1955 Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 So far, irrespective of the speaker, my favorite vocal mic that I know will always work* is the OM7. I also like the 767a, the OM6, and the OM3. I don't care for the OM5. The e835 is nice as well, and a bargain (at least in the US) - I'll take it over the SM58. *By work, I mean will always give me the gain-before-feedback needed to get the job done while still sounding good after the anti-feedback EQ has been done. The VX10, KMS105, and PR22 sound a lot better, but oftentimes they just won't get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted December 8, 2008 Author Share Posted December 8, 2008 Hmm, okay. Cheers for that, will look into it! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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