Code words?

[IanG]

We use quite a lot of VESDA systems in work - http://www.reliablefire.com/vesdafolder/vesda.html has a good description of how they work.

[AC03]

For the Code names,my school always uses the first two words of the emergency and puts them into Phonetic alphabet

 

FIre= Foxtrot India

BOmb= Bravo Oscar

MEdical Assistance= Mike Echo

ASistance required= Alpha Sierra

 

etc

[dfinn]

Hi,

 

As for how fire alarms detecting different type of smoke I might have the answer.

 

I was always taught that inside a smoke alarm there is a tiny amount of radioactive material (Amarecium). The radioactive emmissoin uis detected by a detector showing nothing is blocking it and all is well.

 

However when something gets in the way of the source and the detector (smoke) the detector doesnt detect radiation and the alarm is set off.

 

It may determine what is tobacco/ solder smoke and what is a real fire by the density and amount of smoke particles. I mean there are going to be a lot more smoke particles in a full on fire that in a soldering iron. The detection system amy be designed to tolerate a certain amount of air partics from ciggareta and general air dust and only go off when more dense smoke is present.

 

Also if smoke particles are different sizes then technically this means it takes less of them to block the radiation meaning it triggers the alarm unlike smaller particles which wouldnt.

 

Please correct me if im wrong as I have no experience in fire alarm systems but am only saying what I have been taught.

 

Hope this helps

 

Daniel

[smeggie]

lo, slightly Off Topic here, but interesting [though I think it has already been covered somewhere else here too]

 

On some of the more complex systems I have seen used, there are actually two full dectectors within each detection shell -

one particulate sensor using either radiation or I/r light, and a rate of heat rise sensor.

The idea being that if there is haze used in a show, then it wouldn't set off the heat sensor as well, and thus only set off an alert rather than the full alarm.

and if a sensor is above the audience, then the change in the amounts of heat given off by a fire is far more than that of an audience and lx rig coming in and turning on as the change in air temperature would be slower than that of a fire taking hold.

 

of course, the settings need to be played with when placed directly above the main stage lx rig that suddenly turns on 20k of heat in a smoky venue

- the way around this, as I understand it, is to have a 'show' setting for the alarm net in the theatre, and a 'dark' setting for when its empty

 

- the tolerances are greater in the show setting than the dark one, so when the rig turns on; it gives slightly longer before setting off the alarm network.

while the dark setting is at its most sensitive for when there is no-one in the venue to keep eyes open for fires.

 

back on topic...

 

I have used mr sands for fire,

mr black for explosive,

mr johns-cross for medical aid,

and on the occasion that general assistance is needed,

messers b.rawn and b.ruisers [select last one for describing a fight kicking off, and first one for general bods]

 

cheers

andrew clunie

[ojc123]

Hmm, I was thinking of this topic along the lines of a somewhat light hearted conversation about what people do in various venues, I would certainly not pretend that a single set of guidelines are suitable for every venue or that I am in any way competent to describe them if they did exist.

If anyone has read anything I have written in this topic and taken it as advice I would strongly suggest you rethink your actions, I certainly didn't mean for them to be taken that way.

 

Sorry for any confusion,

 

Ike

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Whatever your intention was you've started a worthwhile thread. Lots of food for thought here. We're reflecting on our practice. That can only be a good thing.

 

Slightly off topic perhaps, but as a teacher/technician/Union H&S rep I worry about the number of school pupils on these fora who appear to be allowed to undertake activities, and make decisions, beyond their qualifications and experience. It seems to me a matter of time before we get a real problem in a school somewhere and the brown stuff is distributed by the ventilator. No doubt it will make it even harder for those of us who try to get it right.

[Jivemaster]

Yeah, that we consider planning for the safety of the punters and staff in unusual situations is important. BUT the decisions are for the licence holder to make even if they delegate and take advice. The licence holder will have to explain any failures at the inquest.

 

As for doing things we are not qualifed or experienced for, esp in a school, it's called learning and needs preparation and supervision. Wthout the preparation and supervision yes it's foolhardy.

[ojc123]

Yeah, that we consider planning for the safety of the punters and staff in unusual situations is important. BUT the decisions are for the licence holder to make even if they delegate and take advice. The licence holder will have to explain any failures at the inquest.

 

As for doing things we are not qualifed or experienced for, esp in a school, it's called learning and needs preparation and supervision. Wthout the preparation and supervision yes it's foolhardy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed 100%. I still worry though. All the best with your learning.

[Jivemaster]

I do know a Riverboat venue, that used to humour the embarking guests by making the DTI statutory safety briefing into an item of fun and ridicule. After they had a real fire and loss of power during a cruising party, the inquiry came down very heavily on them. The emergency procedures are part of the licence terms, They must be there, they must be put there by the licence holder, they must be promulgated to the correct people only, and correctly used by those people.

[Russ]

I was always taught that inside a smoke alarm there is a tiny amount of radioactive material (Amarecium). The radioactive emmissoin uis detected by a detector showing nothing is blocking it and all is well.

 

However when something gets in the way of the source and the detector (smoke) the detector doesnt detect radiation and the alarm is set off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not quite right - there is an electric potential across the chamber and smoke passing into the chamber causes the air to ionise and a current to flow.

 

Anyhow, ionisation detectors such as these don't tend to be used very much any more - home smoke detectors are usually still ionisation, but most commercial ones are optical which is apparently better. VESDA is an extension of the optical principle and is pretty much the dog's proverbials.

 

I don't really see how any smoke detector can tell the difference between stage smoke and a real fire. Maybe VESDA can because the smoke fluid will condense in the piping before it reaches the sensor. It would be interesting to try either way.

 

Incidentally, VESDA is a lot better than normal fire alarms because it has a 10-stage warning scale. So the chances are it will pick the fire up 5 minutes earlier than a normal system would, and give you a nudge so you can send people around to put it out before the full-blown alarm is triggered. I've never seen it used outside of datacenters though.

[mac.calder]

Where I am currently uses the following:

 

"The Japanese contingency has arrived, could x,y,z please meet them in ____" for bombs (where x,y,z are trained wardens) - A reference to hiroshima I think

 

and

 

"Could x,y,z of the hell's fire company please report to theatre management" - a aussy script which was performed a few years ago, and has it's poster still hanging on the wall. apparently they managed to start a small fire in dimmer land, so it is some inhouse joke.

[gaspipe58]

Slightly off topic perhaps, but as a teacher/technician/Union H&S rep I worry about the number of school pupils on these fora who appear to be allowed to undertake activities, and make decisions,  beyond their qualifications and experience. It seems to me a matter of time before we get a real problem in a school somewhere and the brown stuff is distributed by the ventilator.  No doubt it will make it even harder for those of us who try to get it right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thank God someone has said it! From experience in school and reading the forum I was under the impression this was sort of acceptable. I'm so relieved to find I'm not alone in my concerns.

 

Tim

[Darkfold]

The only reason we are allowed to is because noone really puts emphasis on who should. Most schools are only too happy for the kids to do it because it means that the staff dont need to know how and the school doesnt have to hire someone specifically to deal with it.

[TNVS2]

London Theatre, and anyone who has worked in it, appreciates that "MR SAND" is pretty much code for fire, and "Mr JET" is pretty much code for bomb.

Why is it that every conference centre and event venue, down to the local am dram theatre, has silly codes such as "could mrs montague please visit the millhouse suite", or my favourite, so far: " there is a mouse in the windmill"!!!

Could we kindly please standardise these codes please!!

Certain Security officers, you know who you are! too many years in the military!

Then we can all sing from the same song sheet, and provide adequate response to incidents.

 

[EDIT]

Mods - Merged with existing codeword topic.

[Freddie]

The downside to standardised code-words is that if a punter finds out about them, then the entire system is somewhat pointless. At least if every venue has different code-words, there's less chance of it being discovered.

 

Surely the entire point of these codewords is that they sound like normal tannoy announcments. Mrs Montague to the Millhouse Suite = good. Mouse in windmill = a bit "unusual" and therefore more obvious.

 

Ths museum of everything on BBC7 covered it best though:

 

Would Mr FIRE BRIGADE please visit the flammable items gallery

[nuttytechy]

After reading this and basically it involves what I am doing then I want to add in what I am implementing at the place I work at.

 

To cut a long story short. I am rewriting the FoH handbook as it is dated slightly and as times have changed then needs are must so I am doing it.

 

For a fire = Mr sands or Mr Jet

 

Bomb scare = TimeCheck x 2

 

Medical emergency = 3 blues.... in this location.

 

Other issues = Peurno.

 

At one point I wouldn't consider a bomb scare to be that much of an issue but as times have changed with greater threats and the theatre is right on the door step of Portsmouth dockyard, big shopping complex and a major train station which have had a fair few bomb scares then I have moved TimeCheck higher up in my list of concerns.

 

The theatre manager did ask for his own codeword just incase he got kidnapped randomly by some demented audience member.. He wanted "Santa's in the building"