revbobuk Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 For as long as I can remember, the mic suggestion for auditorium use where the speaker is not going to get closer than about 18" - church use on a stand, lectures etc - has been the Audio Technica ATM33 - now replaced with the 8033. Any suggestions for a better/alternative choice at around the £100 mark? Discreet appearance, end-address condenser, good for voice. Perhaps hyper- rather than cardioid? Speech, rather than song. Be nice to have some opinions. The Rode M3 would be nice - if it didn't have a switch. Hate switeches where users can reach them - grrrr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 For as long as I can remember, the mic suggestion for auditorium use where the speaker is not going to get closer than about 18" - church use on a stand, lectures etc - has been the Audio Technica ATM33 - now replaced with the 8033. Any suggestions for a better/alternative choice at around the £100 mark? Discreet appearance, end-address condenser, good for voice. Perhaps hyper- rather than cardioid? Speech, rather than song. Be nice to have some opinions. The Rode M3 would be nice - if it didn't have a switch. Hate switeches where users can reach them - grrrr. Maybe not quite in the price range, but take a look at the Sennheiser ME 36 with 15cm or 40cm length goosenecks: http://www.sennheiser.co.uk/uk/icm.nsf/roo...installed-sound No switches! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revbobuk Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 Looking for something that can be used in a variety of locations, not necessarily just at a lectern, so wasn't thinking of a gooseneck particularly. But thanks - it's a helpful suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern123 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I think you'd be hard put to find anything better than AT around that price bracket. Rode are great, and as good as you'll get. AKG C451 would be ideal, or an SE300 with CK91 head - both are around £200 + VAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solstace Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Patten123: Much as I love those AKG mics (particularly the C451) for musical sources, I don't rate them much for speech applications such as this. In particular for speech I find their high-end output somewhat harsh and even brittle at times. Further, I'd stay away from the SE300/CK91 because as well as the sonic issues already mentioned, I've found the bayonets securing the capsules cannot be locked in place. Yes, I've been burned by this before... To the OP: I don't know that for universal lectern use a hypercardioid is all that great... It will likely be more prone to the proximity effect than a cardiod mic, and if your speaker moves while he's talking then it will be more obvious that he's moved outside the pickup pattern of the mic. There's a less obvious factor too: Many hypercardioid designs I've come across suffer WORSE rear-rejection than their cardioid counterparts. I've found this tends to outweigh the benefits of the narrower front-on-pickup area. Perhaps this latter factor is more venue/installation dependent but worth thinking about before you splash out. Have you considered simply hiring a selection and actually comparing them for your application, or is that not possible? Where is this £100 figure from, and what exactly are wanting to get from it other than a replacement unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revbobuk Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 Solstace: thanks, some good info there. It's interesting, isn't it, that the front/rear ratio at feedback frequencies often isn't all that brilliant even for a cardioid. Point taken about the effects of moving around. Where's all this coming from? Simply that the single most common request that I get when people are asking for installation advice is 'can we have a microphone that works from further away, please?'. While the short answer is 'no', the longer answer is that some mics are more effective at 18" than others, and the atm33a is pretty good there. I just wondered if other people had found anything better - the £100 figure simply reflects the price of the Audio Technica. Paying £300 for one mic just isn't an option for many churches. Hiring is a great suggestion - I know that other people's opinions are no substitute for careful listening. But there are plenty of people here with a much greater depth of experience than me, and I'm just trying to draw from that. After all, isn't that what the BR does? I'd have to agree with the comment about mics with bits that can be undone. I'll add that to my list of features I hate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solstace Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I've had a lot of success with the Shure MX4xx series, using their R185 cardioid capsules and their upgraded metal pop/wind-shields. Working distances (depending on the volume, clarity and speed of the person speaking) have been anything from 4 inches to 12 feet. From lots of bitter experience, I'm finding that most of the challenges I have with reinforcing speech come from inexperienced speakers/preachers/readers who assume they can whisper several feet away from the mic and have the PA do all the work for them. They also tend to ignore the effects of reverb, echo or ambient noise in a building, and tend to end up speaking too fast. Often they're nervous too, so they'll talk even faster and mumble even more. Their voice (amplified or not) just becomes a wash of noise - hardly conducive to effective communication of their message. Perhaps for the churches struggling to afford anything but the most basic microphones and PA equipment, they could start by providing (and refreshing) some basic training of those who speak in their building/groups. This might be cheaper in the short term. In the long term it can only help them get all the more out of any kit they do buy in the future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revbobuk Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 Couldn't agree more. And I do take great care with user training. But there's always someone who won't listen, or someone who was away, or someone who just doesn't contribute very often. And for them, you need to do the best you can. As someone once wisely observed, 'if you amplify a mumble you get an amplified mumble.' I'll take a look at the MX400 series - although they are goosenecks, and I wasn't thinking that way. I may settle for the M3, and use one of the tiny little 'scent pearls' that some underwear shops put in their bags - they are just the right size and squishiness to insert into a small slide switch to disable it in a non-destructive and non-permanent way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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