Freelance rates?

[paulears]

Being known as an 'all rounder' also means that many people you work for see no need to adjust fees when you wear different hats. The trouble is that very often smaller companies are not private enough and people you'd rather not know how much you are getting, do find out - and use this information when they want something. One firm I do business with have a one-man band office, and when they sneak outside for a fag, all and sundry dig about and read things they are not supposed to. Trouble is, so do I - and it's galling to find that when you did a cut-price quote and got the job, you weren't just a bit cheaper, but vastly cheaper and they played you off to get a good price even better!

 

I don't have any form of price list any longer - each job gets a rate depending on what it is.

 

I do think though, that at this time, giving up a salaried job to go freelance is more risky than it has ever been.

[MarkA74]

May be that's where I was different then, I only charged one price. I didn't charge any more for doing camera than I did for doing sound or vision mixing.

[Graphics_Guy]

Not all sweetness and light north of the Border. I can only dream of £225+ daily rates.

As a graphics guy my regular supplier has taken steps to reduce freelancers (IMHO at the expense of the full time technicians sanity).

Having to consider more work further South to make up for the shortfall AND learn lampie & noisy stuff!

I've lowered my rates too.

[Pete McCrea]

And now for the thoughts of one who uses subcontractors:

 

I must admit that we will alter the rates will able to pay depending on the job, and what the person is doing. This is part of the process of the Subcontractor where we give them as much information as possible, and they then offer a price for the job. We know what we have quoted

 

I don't see Jack of All as a bad thing (and I would consider myself as one until recently). In my mind it means that someone can understand, and if needs be assist other departments when the brown hits. That said we always quote a job with safe and sensible levels of manpower, and put people in the relevant jobs.

 

Having spent time as a freelancer, having been stiffed on various gigs, getting paid late and being fobbed off I know what it's like. That's why I'd hope that Production:av is a different company to work for, and hopefully the guys we use would back me up on that.

[Shaggy]

Yer, but with all due respect, Shaggy, are these people 23 as well?

 

Sorry, £190 - £225 IS average, if your good, and experienced.

 

Not everyone working for less than £190 a day is young, rubbish or a dickhead. From where I'm standing it looks like the majority of small scale rock'n'roll tours pay less than that, and you'd get less than that for one offs outside of London or for smaller companies. Plenty of the people with that sort of tour that come through the venue I casual in are not in any of those categories. Saying it's average if you are good and experienced ignores the fact that there's not that many salaried jobs that would appear to offer experience that others would recognise. This means you have to work as a Freelancer to do anything thats not pushing boxes. Ideally there'd be full time jobs with PA/Lighting companies that paid a living wage and got you out of the warehouse reasonably often, but these don't appear to get advertised so it's scrabbling around doing whatever work comes along for most younger technicians.

[Sound Juice]

so it's scrabbling around doing whatever work comes along for most younger technicians.

 

I am a younger technician and scrabbling around for whatever work is availble seems to be my only means of feeding myself atm.

I can only dream of day rates inexcess of £160...

 

I doubt this is entirely because of my geographical location, ie being outside of london?

[Guest lightnix]

I am a younger technician and scrabbling around for whatever work is availble seems to be my only means of feeding myself atm.

I can only dream of day rates inexcess of £160...

The use of the word "scrabbling" is interesting IMO. To me, it's another illustration of the low level of self-esteem that many techs have - and hire companies, too; if not the entire backstage industry B-)

 

In or out of London, I find it appalling that people are getting away with paying 12 year old rates (£160 per day was what I was fetching back in 1996).

 

The "London Rates" argument is a load of bollox - and that's a FACT, not an opinion. Although there may be some living costs which are higher in the Capitol, there are several others (e.g. the cost of PLI, training courses, mobile 'phone tariffs, broadband rates and many more), which are exactly the same wherever you go. If anything, the price gap between living in London and living in the Provinces has narrowed considerably over the last 20 years, partly due to the increase in the number of long-distance commuters; some of whom may travel 200+ miles to work and back every day of the week (poor b*st*rds).

[The Gaffa]

Lightnix, By "London rates" are you refering to whats know as London Weighting?

 

Whenever I get the chance to do freelance work I'll charge what I think I can get away with, without scaring off the clients.

All depends on how much work is involved to get the show up and running.

[JDP]

If anything, the price gap between living in London and living in the Provinces has narrowed considerably over the last 20 years, partly due to the increase in the number of long-distance commuters; some of whom may travel 200+ miles to work and back every day of the week (poor b*st*rds).

 

I know of several people who live in outer areas of London and freelance, mostly in London. These people live in Surrey, Kent, Berkshire, Slough, Windsor etc. Living in London is rent and maybe £4.00 for a travel card to a job. Living outside London is the parking (as much as £50), congestion charge (£8.00 sometimes £10 if you pay next day), petrol, plus your rent and other fees experienced by freelancers that Nick points out...

[indyld]

Perhaps a lot of this thread has come about because of different people version of average.

 

I think that JDP's "average" day rate might be the middle ground of high and low rates that many freelancers charge (in my experience) - isn't this called a median average? Some other posters seem to object to this notion because they see more instances of lower day rates, making the mean average, or possible the mode (most common) average and believe this to be the true figure. It all depends how you calculate your averages.

 

Everyone is right, in their own way.

 

Regarding Mythical London Rates, this is the kind of guff that some provincial companies spout whenever they think that can get you on a lower rate. Most of the time in this business, where a freelancer lives and where they work is unconnected. Even if your not touring. I spend a good deal of time hacking in and out of London because that's where a lot of the work is - granted, it might not be so easy if I lived in York but Somerset is doable with overnight stops etc. It's not as convenient or as cost effective as doing gigs in Bristol, but hey, that's where my clients want me.

 

I am in Spain at the moment and am not working on "Spanish Rates" ( either money or speed wise)

[Guest lightnix]

Lightnix, By "London rates" are you refering to whats know as London Weighting?

Regarding Mythical London Rates, this is the kind of guff that some provincial companies spout whenever they think that can get you on a lower rate...

 

...I am in Spain at the moment and am not working on "Spanish Rates" ( either money or speed wise)

Nail hit squarely on head by indyld - the "London Rates" scam is just that - a scam. It's true that I'm not as well-travelled as some in here these days, but I've so far been unaware of any "Capitol City" rates scams being operated elsewhere.

 

The closest I've seen to it in other countries, is the "Home Town" per diems scam: where a company will refuse to pay you PD's in the city where you live - on the grounds that you can eat and sleep at home when doing a gig there (pffft...); but will also say that they can't pay you PD's, when you're doing a gig in their home town, either - because they "can't" charge a client per diems for a gig in their own city :D

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[jeffbeale00]

If you are in search of Freelance rates, www.projectesource.com gives you more info.

Thanks. :D

[indyld]

The closest I've seen to it in other countries, is the "Home Town" per diems scam: where a company will refuse to pay you PD's in the city where you live - on the grounds that you can eat and sleep at home when doing a gig there (pffft...); but will also say that they can't pay you PD's, when you're doing a gig in their home town, either - because they "can't" charge a client per diems for a gig in their own city :D

 

 

Yes, I've come across that one as well - no travel allowance for the Bristol leg of a tour, coz that's where I live / No travel for the London leg because that's where production is based / No PD's or travel for the Leeds show because the Managing Director daughter went to college there 5 years ago ( ok, maybe not that one). I've even had a travel day cut from my payed schedule just because I am the only one on the crew who happens to live near that gig - these few occasional "perks" used to go a little way to make up for all the crap you get the rest of the time in this business.

 

Gosh, I sound really negative today. Probably because my presenters didn't turn up for their 0730 rehearsal....