Bråthe Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Hi Im looking into buying a used Avo FD72 way dimmer rack and had some trouble finding info on them. First is it possible to run them on 230v ? I know that normaly they run on 400v and split it down to 230v with 1phase + neutral for each module.What I where hoping to be abel to is to run each module on 2phases of 230v without any neutral, would this work? Second question is ; can they run in switchpack mode? I think I heard that you can place the new Art2k`s in it so I just had a small hope that it would be possible to do so on these old workhorses to :) So lets say top 4 modules run in dimming mode while bottom 2 run in switchpack and supply movers. Thanks for any responce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDP Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 OK, a 72 way FD Rack consists of 6 12-way modules. These modules have Mini-Cams, which in return plug into a distro at the bottom. One Module of FD rack is one phase. It is possible to run them at 230V simply by wiring a 63A single phase plug or whatever on each module. As standard, FD racks come with Cam-Locks. You could build a cable from what ever your main power is to CamLocks, and simply not wire the last phase and then wire the remaining phase to either Live 1 or Live 2. That would be how I would recommend doing it. Unless, you want it to be completely balanced on the 2 phases? If you do, you will need to do some re-wiring either in the FD distro or by removing your own distro with mini-cams in, wired to each phase? What is your current power supply, and if you have 2 phases available, surely you have a third? It would be SO much easier to run 3 phase on Camlock into the rack, and the be it, rather than try to re-wire the thing. FDs can't do switch packs. You obviously don't want to run your movers on switch. An FD rack has 2 socapexs on the back, if you take the bottom two modules out, you could build yourself a 3U box with 12 breakers on the front, 2 socas on the back and 1M long minicams to go into the distro? That would be the best way to do it. Build a few of these boxes and you can swap as much as you like, and customise your rack for each job. You would need to build yourself an analogue switchpack to work as a DMX controlled switchpack. Again, build an analogue one, and you can inter-swap this between the modules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Have you tried emailing Avo about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bråthe Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 Awsome , thanks a lot for the fast responce. Yeah ofc I have a 3 phase connection so I can just rewire them using the mini-cams then if there aint a 400v connection.About your idee of making custom modules with breakers and trow them in the rack its a realy nice idee. Would love to be able to customice it like that. Again thanks a lot :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDP Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Brathe, If you feel you can't, a company we have called Andolite will be happy to make a module for you. At the end of the day, its a 3U box, with the front punched for 12 breakers and maybe a main RCD and the back cut for the Minicam tails and two socas... Its the way I have seen a few people do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Braithe: it would seem that you are getting confused between 400v and 3 phase. They are one and the same in most circumstances. You get 230v is you measure between Live and Neutral and 400v is you measure between say L1 & L2 or L2 & L3. If your Dimmer Rack is wired with 5 Camlock Connectors then it is wired for 3 phase or 400v as you call it. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csg Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 The simplest way of running a fd72 rack from single phase is simply to use a converter box prior to the 5 wire rack power input which has a 3 wire input ( live nutral, earth) to five wire output ( 3 phases, neutral, earth). the single phase input is commoned to all 3 phase outputs. In the uk, SES, rubber box co. and andolite etc are the people to speak to. This will give you a total rack pull of 400A - this is only enough to load 40 channels to 10A, but chances are if you are in a venue without 3ph power, the show will be small anyway one of the companies I freelance for has about 20 or so fd72's in there inventory, and in the unusual circumstance of single phase operation, this is how it would be done the minicams are just about acceptable as they are " internal", but the camlock inputs should certainly be changed for powerlock connectors. Camlocks are extremely dangerous connectors, and most venues, certainly in the uk, actively discourage their use, with many banning them altogether. the fd dimmers are good, but can be high matainence due to their age. the patch bays in particular can be a royal pain. The company I mention above has a full time dimmer tech who spends 5 days a week looking after them continuously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDP Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 the minicams are just about acceptable as they are " internal", but the camlock inputs should certainly be changed for powerlock connectors. Camlocks are extremely dangerous connectors, and most venues, certainly in the uk, actively discourage their use, with many banning them altogether. the fd dimmers are good, but can be high matainence due to their age. the patch bays in particular can be a royal pain. CSG, who is this company? Most rental companies do use Powerlock these days, but I can tell you for a fact that no touring venues are banning them. When you do a tour with an FD 72, its going to be a bigish venue, complete with Type 14s and a complete wiring system. Admitidly most venues have Powerlock on the wall or will tail in for you, but a lot of venues do keep Powerlock to Camlock converters just in case. Providing you have a Type 14 preferably on Powerlock at the receiving end, I see no reason why a ban would be in order - anything after the type 14 will be for the production/touring crew to use ONLY. Can you elaborate on this any more? Camlocks are no more dangerous than soooo many other things in our industry. In fact, as nobody in a venue with Camlocks is likely to be bringing in children etc who could play, there in no way dangerous to anyone. Whats your problem with Camlocks being used in PROFESSIONAL venues? FD dimmers are NOT high maintenance! Their age has nothing to do with them. The dimmers themselves are fine, the patch bays are prone to breaking or being 'loose' due to age, but the dimmers are anything but high maintenance. Whilst I would give the patch bays on FD racks 2 more years of life, the actual racks will keep going for ever, literally, at least another 20 years. At the end of the day, with such good racks as FDs, its a dam site cheaper to replace the patch on top than it is to do anything else with them. EDIT, I can think whats more dangerous than Camlock for a start. Trying to tip an FD 72 or Art 4000 back onto its wheels. Or trying to tip them up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bråthe Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share Posted September 25, 2008 Here in Norway we have both 400v and 230v 3phase depending on how new the building is. Most new buildnings have both , but a bit older only got 230v.Over here only the 400v connections carry a neutral, the 3phase 230 don`t as 230v is the standard voltage here and you dont wanna break it down to 115/110 with a neutral. So the rack will never be runing on one single phase but allways a 3phase but with a variating voltage of either 400v or 230v. So if I come into a location with 400v its all good and I run the standard wiering of 1phase + neutral for each module , BUT if there is 230v I will have to repatch the modules so each one are hocked up to 2phases. This should according to JDP be posible with just swaping around the mini-cams. I know very well what the difference of a single phase , a 3phase , a 400v or a 230v connection is. My question where mostly regarding if the dimmer modules can run on 2phases each of 230v when 400v (1phase + neutral) is absent. And JDB confirmed that it was posible. Sorry if I make myself hard to understand :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 So what you want is a way to switch from 400V star to 230V delta? Possible on the internal cams, but be careful with load balancing if you have no neutral, loading one phase heavily could push another phase's voltage well over spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopy Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 Most companies changed over from camlock to powerlock when the colour coding system changed as everything had to be changed anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmills Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 Note that the FD only has single pole breakers IIRC, so running off delta raises possibly serious earth fault issues if the outgoing 'neutral' shorts to earth. Just one to think about. Regards, Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spantax Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Bråthe, The FD dimmers are fine to run on both 400V 3P+N+G and 230V 3P+G. I cant give you the step by step, as it has been a few years since I hooked one up, but basicaly theres a key on the back of the power module that needs to get a quarter turn, and then you will have to sneak your hands up in there to move a few baby cams. I would shoot Avo an email to get the exact procedure. JDP, No offence, but if you cant se the danger in a Camlock connector, then maybe you shouldnt be involved with that kind of power... Theres a reason it´s not and never will be CE marked. I don´t know about the UK, but the rest of the EU demands CE labling for any product to be leagal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug kelly Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Bråthe, It might also be worth mentioning that not all of the old FD dimmer power modules had the extra mini cam sockets for delta operation. If you are considering buying one it would be worth checking that the one you are going to buy does have them. Again I would phone or e-mail Avo with any questions. doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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