Programming Moving Heads

[KosmasKosmakos]

Hi everyone for once again.

 

I've been learning through this forum a lot and I am really thankful and glad for this. I was thinking of a threat for "newbies" like me. Well here it is. I am going to place my questions and I hope that they are not stupid. well, they might are but you know... I am newbie :)

 

Lets make a scenario. I am having a small music show for Christmas. It is planned to appear some artist and sing in playback. I have the mp3 on Pioneers 800 and ready to play. But there is no show without lighting. But correct lighting comes after programming. so...

 

1. When programing a dousin of moving heads is like saying to each one of them what to do and when to? for example we have a three minute song. Is programming like planing each of them for every second of the track?

 

Maybe the answer is that by making groups (goup1: left/right of the drums group2: over drums group3: wash heads etc) you program some general moves for each one of them and by making scenes you just select the scene on the console on the time you want it to be played.

 

2. What about the programs build in the heads? what if I have 12 heads (again) and I want them to be like mirroring each other 6:6. like on stage by crossing a line all the heads turn to the middle and all point on the artist singing.

 

Could someone give some examples on how programming works? Maybe upload a video of some very basic programing for a couple of heads? I have searched on youtube but have found nothing.

 

Thanks and sorry for the bad english and big threat :** laughs out loud **:

[Jraven]

Well it depends on the type of show that you are doing....

Yes programming is tellign the lights what you want them to do, Pan, Tilt, Intensity, Colour, Gobo. Everything about the light can be programmed, for example, if you liked a look where all the moving heads pointed on the main singer you could program it so that on a push up of a fader they jumped to this position. You could then add colours/gobos to this using pallets.

There are programs built into some desks these are standard things such as rainbow and pan swing.

when programming if you want the lights to mirror like you say, some desks have a fan function so if you have 5 moving heads across the front of the stage, when the pan is changed the left two go one way and the right two go the other, so they will come together or go opposite ways.

 

I am not good at explaining things so that might be completely uselessm, sorry

[berry120]

Hi!

 

Firstly, don't feel stupid asking what might seem like simple questions. We all had to start somewhere :) Though just to point it out, there is a next generation forum that's aimed at simpler kind of stuff.

 

Moving onto the questions - no you don't have to program the movers for every second of a song:

Maybe the answer is that by making groups (goup1: left/right of the drums group2: over drums group3: wash heads etc) you program some general moves for each one of them and by making scenes you just select the scene on the console on the time you want it to be played.

Yup, that's right. Generally speaking, you'll have a number of memories or playbacks, and you'll program the movers to do different things on each one. So on number 1, you might have a wash, on number 2, you might have a red wash on the drum kit, on number 3, you might have them whizzing and strobing around the stage - things like that. You can then bring up these memories whenever you want to throughout the song.

 

As for mirroring - on most movers there's functionality built in for doing this, you can invert the pan and/or the tilt. So if you inverted all the movers on the right or left side of the stage, when you moved them around they'd mirror each other.

 

There's a lot more to movers than that, but that's the basic idea.

 

As for programming - it differs for every desk! So just trying to find a general guide isn't going to help, you'll need to learn it for one desk. If you say what desk you want to learn how to use the movers on, people might be able to help - but once you're more specific, just searching around on google and / or reading bits of the manual should help.

[ceecrb1]

As stated before it all depends on the desk and the show...

 

progrramming can be anything from theatrical scenes to moving lights..

 

more specifically to your song style question...

 

it is very quick to "group" lights and then recal these groups, edit all the parameters you wish... then have a submaster fader which controls nothing but the dimmer..

 

with this method you can VERY quickly make a motionless "concert" style lighting where you can just keep changing colours/gobos etc which you have programmed into a pallette. (think of it as a "hotkey"/"shortcut key")

you can then add movements, usually from a library of pre-programmed chases and record them again in the groups..

 

hey presto, a concert is programmed and can be opperated "on the fly"

 

 

there are so many other methods, like I opped a few weeks ago a reveal of a new BMW. For this all I did is record a chase. each step of the chase was set to fade etc exactly as needed with their effects etc and I used the GO button to pass to each step..

this ment that I was able to blend the lighting perfectly with the sound as I just had to hit GO at certain moments of the music..

This really is best for these types of setups. a rehearsed show.

 

The 3rd (main) type I have done, is using submasters to create the complete scene the client wanted (which was really just a dimming effect) and just changing from on fader to the other, slowly, creating a blend/fade.

 

 

 

If you have a pc and access to 2 monitors, I'd HIGHLY recomend, downloading the pearl simulator and visualiser from avolites... and a copy of the manual..

 

it will take a lot of reading and at first is a very slow process... but its worth it!!!

The start of the manual has a tutorial section which should help you through.

patch in the desk just 4-6ish lights and have a play.

after a few nights you should be able to get some effects comming out of some memories.

 

This will only teach you the pearl, but what you will also learn is (in my opinion) far more valuable, which is general programming of moving lights and which meathod of recording memories is best.

 

finally dont expect it to be a fast process.. I've been at it a year now with the pearl and there is still more to learn (however I am more of a noise-boy but more than capable with lamps)

[berry120]

If you have a pc and access to 2 monitors, I'd HIGHLY recomend, downloading the pearl simulator and visualiser from avolites... and a copy of the manual..

 

it will take a lot of reading and at first is a very slow process... but its worth it!!!

The start of the manual has a tutorial section which should help you through.

patch in the desk just 4-6ish lights and have a play.

after a few nights you should be able to get some effects comming out of some memories.

 

I knew there was something else I was going to say and forgot - that was it! You can get by with one monitor, but it's a bit annoying having to flip between screens all the time. And if you want the entire desk to fit on your monitor at a decent size, it needs to be fairly large as well (at least it did the last time I looked at it.) The pearl is a great desk IMHO, and it's used a fair bit too. Even if you haven't got access to one, it's a good thing to learn how to use. Added to which it's the best desk I've found as of yet for blagging when you haven't programmed something properly :) Bring on the shape generator!

 

finally dont expect it to be a fast process.. I've been at it a year now with the pearl and there is still more to learn

 

I think that sums it up really. There's no hard and fast way of learning how to program every moving light under the sun with every desk. Granted, that's probably not what you want to do but the point stands - like anything it's not something you can learn overnight, and while the simulator's a good start you still need real world experience to learn what works best in what situation. There's different ways of doing things - I deliberately didn't go into them to try and avoid confusion, but some have been mentioned above.

 

That said, don't let it put you off. I'm not saying it's impossibly difficult - far from it! Once you get into it it's actually pretty easy. All I'm trying to say is there's no such thing as a quick word on here then you'll be able to do whatever you want perfectly. Practice makes perfect!

[Joe Bleasdale]

I would highly recomend two books. First is Brad Schiller's "automated lighting programmers handbook", and secondly Richard Cadena's "automated lighting, the art and science behind automated lighting in theatre, broadcast and concert".

 

The first book explains most things in easy to understand terms with examples of each. The second book delves into the fiddly details and science of everything mentioned in the first book aswell as alot more information on other things.

 

I found both of these books impecable, they enabled me now to have good knowledge in most theoretical terms of automated light, and they also start to go into information on digital lighting.

 

In Brad Schiller's book he outlines a few exercises to help you become better and better at programming. I wont explain these, better if you read the books :)

 

Furthermore, like stated above, programming depends upon the show, console(s), fixtures and also I believe the LD. Every show is different. I would recomend lurking around here alot, reading posts to learn more about certain things. I did an I have by far learned lots.

 

 

 

hope this helps you.

joe

[KosmasKosmakos]

Thank you all for your very kindly way of giving your answers. They are so much apreciated! I've closed some of my spaces of unknowledge :) ... I am actually now working on Martin's demo but I can not program and sync with sound anything!

 

here is some of my "newbie" work:

 

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/7003/27680040sq3.jpg

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2430/24465472qf2.jpg

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2824/81273466ao4.jpg

[berry120]

That poor guy in the last picture looks dazzled! ;)

[KosmasKosmakos]

That poor guy in the last picture looks dazzled! :P

 

is that good or bad? ** laughs out loud **. I am using a lot of mirroring as you can see ;)

[niclights]

It's fine. I don't think that was intended as a criticism! I quite like the asymmetry.

 

But what you are showing here is really about fixture placement/focussing. While you are obviously programming the relevant attributes to get the lamps to these focus positions, they don't show how you might go about operating or controlling this during a show. That's not a negative criticism either. It's just not possible to show it.

 

Once you've learned basic manipulation of fixtures and what you can do with them, the next step is to use some of the advice given to lay things out in a way that permits the necessary control you need for a live show. This is quite a personal thing which depends on console and show type, but can be both the most important and most difficult aspect of programming. Experience on real shows is the only way to figure this out.

[ceecrb1]

In our warehouse, we sometimes use a few fixtures (or simulator) and practice "concert lighting" along to the radio...

 

makes it a litte more interesting and is "real enough" practice...

 

truthfully you have 2 options,

you can try winging it with the radio as it randomly plays songs...

 

you can record a scripted show for one specific song to be opperated live purly by hitting the GO

 

 

this way you will learn 2 forms of recording a show.

[KosmasKosmakos]

It's fine. I don't think that was intended as a criticism! I quite like the asymmetry.

 

But what you are showing here is really about fixture placement/focussing. While you are obviously programming the relevant attributes to get the lamps to these focus positions, they don't show how you might go about operating or controlling this during a show. That's not a negative criticism either. It's just not possible to show it.

 

Once you've learned basic manipulation of fixtures and what you can do with them, the next step is to use some of the advice given to lay things out in a way that permits the necessary control you need for a live show. This is quite a personal thing which depends on console and show type, but can be both the most important and most difficult aspect of programming. Experience on real shows is the only way to figure this out.

 

Yes I know. I did not mean that. even if it was its good. even negative criticism is good. It makes you wake and learn!

 

Now about the pics. As you can see its more like "static" planning. I set them and just that. I have not found a way to create goups and scenes on the program. I dunno why.

 

In our warehouse, we sometimes use a few fixtures (or simulator) and practice "concert lighting" along to the radio...

 

makes it a litte more interesting and is "real enough" practice...

 

truthfully you have 2 options,

you can try winging it with the radio as it randomly plays songs...

 

you can record a scripted show for one specific song to be opperated live purly by hitting the GO

 

 

this way you will learn 2 forms of recording a show.

 

I wish I had some experiece! I usually hit the play on a mp3 and try to catch it up as fast as I can with the program above. still difficult to do it cause there are no groups or programming/preset buttons.

[berry120]

is that good or bad? ** laughs out loud **. I am using a lot of mirroring as you can see

As niclights said it wasn't meant as a criticism! Different lighting can be and is obviously used for different purposes, and in the right setting I've no doubt that could look pretty effective!

 

I haven't used the program you're using - I tend to stick to the likes of the avolites visualiser / simulator, so I can't comment specifically on how to do things - but I'd still recommend giving the avolites one a look. Though that might just be me being biased because it's the desk I've got most experience with!