Moving Lights Control

[tom_the_LD]

The Jester ML would be perfect for you as you could use the Alcora as a DMX in desk so you can still control generics.

 

Josh

Why not just control the generics on the ML?

 

Adam, if the colour changing is an issue, why not get in some scrollers? Programming will take less time and also there is a lot less than can go wrong on a scroller than on a mover. You could also use them with your alcora if you had to; note the term HAD to - It's not ideal!

[smalljoshua]

Why not just control the generics on the ML?

Becuase I was refering to the Standard Jester ML (Priced @ £999 Ex VAT) and NOT the ML24 (Priced @ £1550 Ex VAT).

 

The ML doesn't have the facility for generics but is just a Movers desk with the Facility to use the DMX input for generics.

 

Josh

[tom_the_LD]

Why not just control the generics on the ML?

Becuase I was refering to the Standard Jester ML (Priced @ £999 Ex VAT) and NOT the ML24 (Priced @ £1550 Ex VAT).

 

The ML doesn't have the facility for generics but is just a Movers desk with the Facility to use the DMX input for generics.

 

Josh

My apologies - I thought you were referring to the ML24.

[smalljoshua]

No worries it is only 2 numbers.

 

Either Way they are both great desks.

 

Josh

[adamcoppard]

I think that if we ever did buy a lighting desk, we would go for the JesterML 24, as we are having another 'hall' built for lighting, and so the Alcora could fit in there.

[mrcog]

Moving lights will probably be required (or at least colour changing lights)

a) due to the lack of power (an odd one, but bear with me), we are lmited to 3/4 lights a side (so 6 or 8 in total), which is far from ideal, leaving only a small amount of colours left, meaning that, with some form of colour changing lights, we can use as many colours as technically possible.

b) the moving lights may be required for the plot of the play. Also, we are apparently doing two play's next year, ran off of the same lighting rig / sound rig, and I really don't want to be refocusing / regelling lights every morning, meaning moving lights, although expensive, may spare us some time.

 

Onto desk choices:

We hire from two companies, and have done for the past few years:

Stage Electrics and ESP Production, of which we prefer ESP. Those are the only two moving desks from there inventory. Stage Electrics only do smaller desks (which may be better suited).

 

Right, just to add my view on this one.

 

Firstly, In regard to a), when you say you are limited power wise, do you mean that there is limited power entering the building or that there is a limited number of dimmers avalible?? If it's the latter then it would be much cheaper and easier to rent in extra lanterns, dimmers and accociated disto than to hire in movers. Also, by hireing exta lanterns instead of scrollers then your are going to have more lanterns avalible to you which would mean that you could be more imaginative with your lighting. For example, using sidelight or floor light. (assumeing your only front lighting at the moment.)

 

Then, you say that your going to be doing 2 plays next year. From this I get the impression that you are going to get one in say the winter term and one in the summer, with a long space in between them, correct me if I'm wrong. Therefore, if you hire movers in, you are going to have a HUGE hire cost and you may as well buy them (lets not discus buying movers here, been done before ) Also, you say that you only have 6-8 lanterns in a) and then go on to say that you dont want to be refocusing/ regelling lanterns every morning. Seriously now, does it really take a whole morning to refocus 8 lanterns. If it does then you need to get practiceing and speeding up ;) Also, you say that moving lights may SAVE you time. I can tell you now that the time that you save by not having to refocus your 8 lights will be lost by the time spent hanging the fixture, running power and DMX lines to the fixtures and more importantly plotting the plays.

 

Am I sensing someone just wanting to play with some shiny new toys?? :P

 

Finally, Stage electrics dont just do small desks.... They have pretty much every major desk you could want to use!!

 

Just my point of view, I'm sure a more experienced Blue roomer will add to that.

 

mrcog

 

P.S. Just re-read it, please dont get the impression that it's trying to put you down, I'm not, just trying to make the point that movers are probably not needed. <_<

[Ynot]

Therefore, if you hire movers in, you are going to have a HUGE hire cost and you may as well buy them

Erm, that just doesn't compute!!

£1500 to £2000 for a decent quality moving head (MEGA guesswork there as I've not looked at purchase pricing for a while) versus £70 or so (or less) for a decent 250 or 575 mover on hire...

 

Sorry - NO competition there!!

Finally, Stage electrics dont just do small desks.... They have pretty much every major desk you could want to use!!

But you're certainly right there - and don't go just on what's in the hire-shop on-line.

Give 'em a call and ask what they have available (well in advance!)

[mrcog]

No, you've got the wrong end of the gist of what I'm saying there Ynot.

 

When I said you may as well buy them is becuase when adam says that he has got 2 shows, and he say he doesnt want to keep on refocusing lights. I took that to mean that they hire the lights for the whole time of the 2 plays, which could be the whole year. Therefore you could have 30 weeks of hire costs...

 

Does that make sense? I'm tired and finding it hard to put my words across

[Ynot]

When I said you may as well buy them is becuase when adam says that he has got 2 shows, and he say he doesnt want to keep on refocusing lights. I took that to mean that they hire the lights for the whole time of the 2 plays, which could be the whole year. Therefore you could have 30 weeks of hire costs

OK - that sort of makes sense in what you're saying, but to be honest, no-one in their right mind should contemplate buying any lanterns just for the sake of 2 single weeks' shows, and certainly shouldn't entertain hiring for any longer than they'd actually be used for!

If they did, then they'd be sitting for maybe 48 weeks dark, motionless and wasting money spent every second!!

[mrcog]

Yep, thats exactally what I was trying to get at. Just couldnt find the right words to use.

[LXbydesign]

For goodness sake!!! What is it with "young people" constantly banging on about using movers all the time!

 

So how high is your grid?

 

are you going to be able hang movers off it?

 

what sort?

 

have you thought about zoom and beam angle - size of light OP from the fixture to the floor. A small beam of moving light isnt going to do a lot.

 

It seems some of you kids just wanna play. Thats all it is. Why dont you actually think about the ethics of real lighting design and apply some ideas and creativity. Sure, use technology to help you out if need be but DONT JUST GO ON ABOUT MOVING LIGHTS all the time.!!!

 

There are other ways to realise your ideas and come up with solutions - but if you cant think of anything, then your in the wrong job. (not that your getting paid for it anyway)

 

The money your going to throw away for you to have a bit of fun and a play you could get some more power put in - which would be more useful long term, and then just hire a load more generics and/or scrollers etc.

 

If you really want to have a play with movers, wait for PLASA or goto a l demo room.

[tbjhilton]

Then, you say that your going to be doing 2 plays next year. From this I get the impression that you are going to get one in say the winter term and one in the summer, with a long space in between them, correct me if I'm wrong. Therefore, if you hire movers in, you are going to have a HUGE hire cost...

 

I got the impression the OP meant there would be two short plays (e.g. one-act plays) on the same night, or perhaps two plays on alternate nights, as part of the same 'production' - hence he didn't want to re-focus all lanterns every day between shows. He doesn't mean two shows six months apart.

 

In any case, as Tony says, who on earth would hire movers for the entire duration of rehearsals for a school show? I don't think that was the suggestion - surely they would be hired only for the production week.

 

However... I too am not convinced movers are necessary - usual arguments apply.

[adamcoppard]

Nope, four nights, with two plays.

Monday - Play 1

Tuesday - Play 2

Wednesday - Play 1

Thursday - Play 2

 

or some other arrangement.

 

This is where he problem lies, of me spending all morning doing a refocu and re gel, wheenever we hcange the play in tech week, or during performance week, which is a problem I am trying to find a way around...

[JDP]

heres an easy solution. ..

 

Rather than buying/hiring movers. Buy or hire a 'second' (generic) rig. This way, you can do everything you need to do for both plays, easy. You also won't need to buy or hire a Jands Vista or Hog 3 or whatever it was you hire in, which is totally over the top.

 

Also with movers, decent 250W ones (ie Mac 250 Entour) weigh in the region of 20KG each. If the school don't allow you do climb, how are they going to feel about you man handling 20KG of light up and down? I can do this on my own, but I am a chunky kind of guy, and have done this for a number of years..

 

PS a decent moving light (new) is £2000. You could buy 10 Source 4 Junior Profiles for that. So, if you buy 4 movers, you could have 40, maybe more generics instead . The you need a (decent) desk. A fat frog isn't decent by any means but will do the job for another £2K or you could buy a small decent generic desk for £750 and have another 6 source 4s or load of cable or dimmers for your stock.

 

Thats a very basic equation I did in my head, on the basis your buy Source 4 Juniors for £200 each, there £190 each, new on Used Lighting, plus a bulb at £10. If you have failed to work that equation in your head, and failed to realise the stunning possibilities you can add to your show with 40 Source 4s, you should be taken as far away as possible from the school technical department, before you blow a silly amount of money.

 

Maybe its my in-experience, but to me, 40 Source 4s plus what you have already is more than enough to light 2 plays?

[LXbydesign]

This is where he problem lies, of me spending all morning doing a refocu and re gel, wheenever we hcange the play in tech week, or during performance week, which is a problem I am trying to find a way around...

 

 

What?!!! But you say, at present, you only have about 8 lights! How can it take you "all morning" to refocus / gel 8 lamps?!!! Even if it meant having to get a ladder out etc etc, thats only halfs hours work!

 

Strange.