General Attitude

[niax]

I've been thinking a lot recently about the view of younger people coming to this forum and being shot down for "txt speak" and those who try to give advice but coming off as a bad guy because it seams they are talking themselves up in matters where they have been taught wrong or just don't have the number of hours with the equipment to give a completely accurate response.

 

However, this thread isn't about that, more of what this has lead me to examine - how people perceive me.

 

Personally, I'm quite quiet and keep on going with the job until it's done. I fear social situations a fair bit as I find it difficult to talk to new people until I know the right words to say - this is the potential problem which I wish to ask about.

 

Don't get me wrong, if something needs to be said - it gets said, this is more about small talky types of conversations.

 

If I were to start working with you, whatever it is you do in the industry, how would you react to someone like me?

 

Before you ask, yes - I am bored - after trying to find work for the summer and finding no demand I've started to wonder if I should give up and find another career to focus on.

[Genus]

I think everyone gets slightly intimidated/nervous going to a new job where everyone else seems to know each other and you feel like you're on your own a bit. I think your attitude towards work is (or at least seems to be) good, and that's really the most important thing. I envy those people that can walk into a situation like that and just chat away.

 

Have you tried finding work at the Edinburgh festival? To others, please don't shoot me down, but whilst some companies don't pay well, the experience, especially if you possibly haven't been working for long, is remarkable. Try the big venue companies, some of them may still have vacancies.

 

Best of luck

 

Genus

[niclights]

I also see no problem there at all. In fact I would say most people are just the same, at least when they start out.

 

Enthusiasm for the job is what counts.

[lightsource]

I've been thinking a lot recently about the view of younger people coming to this forum and being shot down for "txt speak" and those who try to give advice but coming off as a bad guy because it seams they are talking themselves up in matters where they have been taught wrong or just don't have the number of hours with the equipment to give a completely accurate response.

However, this thread isn't about that, more of what this has lead me to examine - how people perceive me.

 

 

Well....talk to me in txt spk.....and I'll tell you where to go...as would a lot of BR members... And shot down, is not an understatement.

 

In my company, I do employ 16 year olds, and in all truthfulness, have found them better in ability than some professional adults, charging 4x the fee.

 

Before you ask, yes - I am bored - after trying to find work for the summer and finding no demand I've started to wonder if I should give up and find another career to focus on.

 

You're bored......... Is that a joke? You do have full knowledge of every eventually....do you. Or if not there's about 250 books on sound, lighting and production out there so I would really suggest a good read! That might stem the boredom a little!

 

Seriously, from you're original post.........what service can you provide in any technical capacity?

 

Now back to basics!

 

Personally, I'm quite quiet and keep on going with the job until it's done. I fear social situations a fair bit as I find it difficult to talk to new people until I know the right words to say - this is the potential problem which I wish to ask about.

 

This is a problem, and needs to be dealt with. Communication is the key within all aspects of this industry. You need the ability to communicate with people from the outset of any job. That really is you're starting point.

[niax]

Seriously, from you're original post.........what service can you provide in any technical capacity?

 

This post isn't about my technical capacity - it's about the impression given.

 

OT: I have a fair level of technical knowledge in power and lighting systems - just lacking in experience.

 

Edit:

Started replying before you edited...

 

This is a problem, and needs to be dealt with. Communication is the key within all aspects of this industry. You need the ability to communicate with people from the outset of any job. That really is you're starting point.

 

I don't find communicating in a technical manner difficult - more communicating on a more social level.

[lightsource]

This post isn't about my technical capacity - it's about the impression given.

Well, what's more important, you're impression, or you're technical ability? Whilst I appreciate what you're saying....I'll stop there :)

 

I don't find communicating in a technical manner difficult - more communicating on a more social level.

Then you'll have difficulty from the outset. You need to communicate with all levels.

[paulears]

As a generalism, young people seem to overvalue some things and undervalue others. If you have picked up experience through reading, rather than doing - so have knowledge without experience, then this isn't balanced quite right. The lack of experience gets in the way. Equally, those with plenty of experience, but no comprehension of the background is equally out of step. To be a truly useful person you need a bit of both. The lack of social skills is, in my view, the real problem. The need to communicate with strangers is pretty essential, and many people can't do it.

 

This is really difficult to learn when you're older. People always tell me I can talk rubbish on cue. I can! It always amazed me how many people can't even do a simple "Ladies and Gentlemen, ............" announcement. " I hate the sound of my own voice" is a common phrase when you ask somebody to test a mic. Even a simple one-two is a cringeworthy event.

 

The real secret isn't just verbosity, it's listening and watching. There's a kind of unwritten pecking order. Speak when spoken to is a good one, but there's nothing wrong at all with a casual "hi", "hello" or "morning" to the 'famous' people, but carrying on with your job not expecting an answer. If they want to speak, your greeting will get a proper reply, or often just a mumble - BUT it is appreciated and is simple politeness. Ignoring people because you don't know what to say won't get you noticed.

 

The resonse (if any) you get tells you what to do next. You need to watch and listen to find out if what you are saying is appreciated. Body language is important too.

 

The OP asks how we'd react to him. If I walked in through the door as a visitor, then I remember some people from the first moment. You walk in, somebody spots you, probably has no idea who you are, but says "Hello, I'm Brian - the technical manager". It's an opening for you to introduce yourself - and the ice is broken. On the way to Brian, you probably passed lots of others who didn't even stick in the head. Why? Because they kept their head down, didn't speak, and did not make eye contact. If you were one of those, then my opinion of you is that you might not be worth talking to as you didn't talk to me. Crazy stuff! If a 16 year old, two weeks on the job came up and introduced themselves, then even though I'd spot the greeness, it wouldn't bother me, and if I wanted something, then I'd head for them, having made my mind up based on the conversation.

 

Backstage activities nowadays need the missing social skills - in theatre the only people who perhaps don't have/need them are flymen - they work away from everyone and with a few exceptions, most flymen are kind of in the same club. Those who work at stage level always get better, but some are always at the back somewhere. I don't treat the quite ones badly - I reserve that for the jobsworths who shouldn't be there at all, and when I have time, I single out the reticent ones and make them have a conversation - it's a strain, but they can often do it, once they get over their shyness (is that the correct word for it - not sure?)

 

What people think of you is very important. Nobody has any time for ar*eholes, but being the forgotten wallflower is pretty soul destroying!

[niax]

First off, thanks for the replies.

 

As a generalism, young people seem to overvalue some things and undervalue others. If you have picked up experience through reading, rather than doing - so have knowledge without experience, then this isn't balanced quite right. The lack of experience gets in the way. Equally, those with plenty of experience, but no comprehension of the background is equally out of step. To be a truly useful person you need a bit of both.

I accept that this is a problem - however - most of the technical knowledge has been found in the desire to start a career, to gain the said experience required.

 

The lack of social skills is, in my view, the real problem. The need to communicate with strangers is pretty essential, and many people can't do it.

 

This is really difficult to learn when you're older. People always tell me I can talk rubbish on cue. I can! It always amazed me how many people can't even do a simple "Ladies and Gentlemen, ............" announcement. " I hate the sound of my own voice" is a common phrase when you ask somebody to test a mic. Even a simple one-two is a cringeworthy event.

I am constantly aware that my voice is very nasal, although I am OK with mic tests, unless there is an audience - more a question of nerves than anything.

 

The OP asks how we'd react to him. If I walked in through the door as a visitor, then I remember some people from the first moment. You walk in, somebody spots you, probably has no idea who you are, but says "Hello, I'm Brian - the technical manager". It's an opening for you to introduce yourself - and the ice is broken. On the way to Brian, you probably passed lots of others who didn't even stick in the head. Why? Because they kept their head down, didn't speak, and did not make eye contact. If you were one of those, then my opinion of you is that you might not be worth talking to as you didn't talk to me. Crazy stuff! If a 16 year old, two weeks on the job came up and introduced themselves, then even though I'd spot the greeness, it wouldn't bother me, and if I wanted something, then I'd head for them, having made my mind up based on the conversation.

I think it depends on what kind of visitor you are - going up to every Tom, Dick and Harry and introducing yourself is a little strong, however, if I know that your here in a technical context - that would involve me, I would probably introduce myself, after the Technical Manager does.

 

What people think of you is very important. Nobody has any time for ar*eholes, but being the forgotten wallflower is pretty soul destroying!

I am definitely not an ar*ehole - I think that I'm an ok guy to work with. It seams strange, but being forgotten is something that I've enjoyed in my life, not being noticed in school is a great bonus - it means you avoid all the crap which happens during the school day.

[gareth]

Personally, I'm quite quiet and keep on going with the job until it's done. I fear social situations a fair bit as I find it difficult to talk to new people until I know the right words to say - this is the potential problem which I wish to ask about.

 

Don't get me wrong, if something needs to be said - it gets said, this is more about small talky types of conversations.

 

If I were to start working with you, whatever it is you do in the industry, how would you react to someone like me?

Well, speaking personally (and I guess this is something upon which people's thoughts may differ), if someone young and relatively inexperienced in the industry was working alongside me I'd far rather they were a bit quiet and reserved at first, rather than being know-it-all gobsh!tes with an opinion on everything and a compulsion to share it with everyone. I've experienced both extremes (young casuals, work experience students, etc.) and there's absolutely no contest regarding which one's preferrable.

 

Someone who's initially shy and a bit reluctant to push themselves forward in a social setting can usually be coaxed 'out of themselves' fairly easily - we have a lot of school students coming to us on work placements at the venue I currently work at, some of whom can be quite shy when they arrive at first, but it seems that the very relaxed, friendly nature of our department tends to thaw the ice quite quickly. Coffee break on their first morning is normally the turning point - often the education department bring them down to us after we've had our 'start of the day brew' and are about to go and start work, so they just kind of tag along for the first couple of hours without much opportunity to engage them in conversation ; but once we have a chance to sit around in the office with them and start having a proper chat, and they realise that we're actually quite pleasant people to be with (!), it gets a lot easier. It's always gratifying to have someone leave us at the end of a week's work experience saying what a great week they've had and how 'at home' they felt with us, especially when they were really shy when they first arrived.

 

At the other end of the scale, we do get the occasional irritating gobsh!te, too - and to put it bluntly, we can't wait to get rid of them.

[paulears]

It suddenly occurred to me that is also a common cringeworthy event. Shaking hands! To some younger people, the idea of touching, let alone speaking to strangers is a very awkward moment. I have noticed that the ones who are comfy shaking hands can communicate better. Some find it not odd at all - and they seem to be people who play sports, so football and cricket people are always shaking hands and this does seem to extend the social comfyness.

 

To niax - your voice is probably fine. Don't forget that although when you hear it you might hate it - everyone else only knows you sounding like that, so if your work mates talk to you, they obviously don't have a problem with it. I know that I speak too fast, especially when I get excited - and I've never really sorted it, but I don't suppose there's much I can do about it now.

 

The fact you're aware of how you may come across is good. I'm sure that as you're aware, you can move in the right directon.

[w/robe]

Niax

 

I can not work out what stage you are at. Are you looking for something in the summer before returning to education or are you now at a point where you want to work permanently?

 

Also, although I know that this post is not about experience, knowing what experience you have may help people guide you in the right direction.

 

As far as your direct question is concerned you may find it a disadvantage if you find it hard to chat as almost any work will require you to either be interviewed or go in to meet people before you start. Depending on the severity of your discomfort people may feel that they do not get to know you as a person and then it is hard to know how you will fit in to their team/plans.

 

Once you are in work it may be less of a problem as, if you work hard and get on with people, you do not have to be the life and soul of the party and, generally, theatres are very good at accepting people on their own terms.

[BenHowitt]

Hi. Sorry, Niax, I'm not here to offer help, but this seems an opportune moment to ask. How afraid should we be to ask questions? i.e. should we admit to our stupidity, or try and work it out by ourselves for a bit longer. How many questions can we ask before it gets annoying?

 

'Pologies if that was too many questions.

 

Ben Howitt

[niclights]

Nothing wrong with asking questions if you're unsure about something.

 

And, although I'm sure you mainly meant technical stuff, I always specifically tell people to question anything relating to safety if they feel at all concerned.

[Colin]

I would too echo Genus' words about the Edinburgh Fringe, it is a great way to make new friends who are interested in the same things as you are. While some venues will treat you like the dirt on their shoe there is the point that there will be those that you are working with will be in the same position as you. There is nothing better than hardship for making friends for life :** laughs out loud **: some of whom may be useful contacts in the future. Something similar is the national student drama festival where you won’t get paid (having to pay of food and accommodation) but you get an intensive week of technical experience and socialising in a very safe environment (Other draw backs are it is in March and Scarborough).

 

When I started out I was fairly nervous and didn't really have much courage to talk to anyone however as time progressed my confidence grew and at the point that I was being put in charge of small teams I was able to engage them in small talk and generally be quite chatty.

 

Regarding looking for work it is always difficult to break into new companies (especially if you doing have your own transport) but I would recommend phoning and talking to people directly (it is too easy to press delete on a CV) and then try and visit them in the same day to talk about what you know and get some face-to-face time so they are more likely to remember you next time an event comes along.

[karl]

Someone who's initially shy and a bit reluctant to push themselves forward in a social setting can usually be coaxed 'out of themselves' fairly easily

There can be a difference between being shy and struggling with small talk, I'm not particularly shy but have always had difficulty knowing what to say in social situations. Usually if I could just think of the right words I'd happily say them but nothing comes to mind. I can talk the hind legs off a donkey on subjects I know about but put me in a room full of strangers and tell me to chat to them and I'm in trouble.

 

I've been the same all of my life, but have learned to cope by tricks such as having stock phrases ready for common situations - especially ones that I can use to steer the conversation onto a subject where I am more comfortable.