mr_cahonjes Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 While I have been interning in America my university Queen Margaret University in Edinburgh has been busy: http://news.scotsman.com/education/Univers...4209.jp#2770893 Now I don't have all the facts or knowledge becasue I have been out of the country for the past six weeks so any further insight that isn't university fed propoganda e-mails or newspaper articles off "leaked" information would be useful. Any current or former students have their opinions on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jram Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 ...any further insight that isn't university fed propoganda e-mails or newspaper articles of "leaked" information would be useful. You could have a look on the Scot-nits forum if you're a member. Meanwhile, it seems there's a lot of it about: RSAMD funding crisis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_Robbo26 Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 I was really interested in this course, as I am currently looking at courses for my higher education years and this really appealed to me.Ive got a prospectus and its printed in there so doesnt this mean that this whole article is a scam?Ive emailed the university as it effects my final decision for what I decide to do.Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_cahonjes Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 No its all truth. From next year I believe they will stop accepting pupils to the course and it wil close after all current students have graduated/left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_Robbo26 Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I dont believe the story since reading this page on the Universitys website and the attatched letter link at the bottom of the page. http://www.qmu.ac.uk/marketing/press_relea...re_teaching.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Diamond Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 I am an employer and ex-Stage Management student of QM and it is very disturbing to see the way things have been developing over the past few years with the QM drama department as a whole and the wider issue of funding for training the Scottish theatre sector. It is not just the theatre industry that is going to suffer if the level of vocational training available in Scotland is diminished. As an employer of technical crew, the Stage Management course at QM and RSAMD is usually my first port of call on any recruitment drive. Not having a reliable resource of new and developing crew, both in terms of availability and level of training, is going to have a knock-on effect in reducing the number of skilled technicians working in Scotland in any discipline. For many years theatre production students have benefited financially, helping them through their studies and professionally, with the experience they get working on technical production of events, conferences and other corporate jobs. There are many ex-students trained in technical theatre production, who have chosen not follow a career in theatre and are using and developing their skills elsewhere. I am one among many who have rarely been involved with theatre since graduating but I am grateful for the training we received that has enabled us to flourish in our own fields. There is a shortage of training options available nationwide for individuals wanting to work in technical disciplines. There is even less providing real industry experience to support the training that is available. I understand that the National Skills Academy is addressing this but I have heard little of how that is going to help us north of the border. It has been sad to see the ongoing saga of the QM Drama Dept since I graduated in 1999. The attitude of the QMU management, from what I have read is deplorable. Yes, drama staffing costs more to support a smaller number of students than a lecturer in front of 100 students but it is essential to ensure that students get the appropriate level of training for their needs. Suitable facilities are also essential. The Gateway was promised for many years and had great potential as a centre of excellence only for it to be taken away and the department wedged into whatever space could be found at the new campus. The rep theatre system that the QM SM course was based on when I was studying ensured that we were pretty much always working on a show. It helped us all understand what it was like to work in the real world of theatre. We were not your average students doing 3-4 hours of lectures a week. We were in college working 9am – 5pm everyday plus overtime and we were rewarded with a degree that we could be proud of and even one that others might be envious of. We sold out every show we produced! It is testament to its success that RSAMD subsequently adopted a course structure similar to when we were based at Corstorphine. The QM Drama Dept. had a fantastic reputation. I’m sure the Course Leader during my time at QM – John Stone, is keeping an eye on the current developments. The course that John helped build back at Corstorphine, the course that all of us were proud to be involved in no longer exists in its original form. And what is happening now must surely feel like a kick in the teeth for all those who put so much effort into establishing the department back in the day. I’m sure I’m not the only student of my era who feels angry that things have gone this way. It will be the employers who will be affected when they can no longer find crew to staff their shows locally in Scotland due to the training being provided south of the border. If you train south of the border, you are more likely to stay there for work. Educational establishments providing vocational courses should be working more closely with industry to establish what we require of graduates once they come on the job market by getting us involved at an earlier stage in their development. I support calls for an open meeting to discuss these issues further with the purpose of developing a strategy to ensure that theatre and other associated industries can help protect their own future in Scotland. Culture defines a nation and if Linda Fabiani MSP and the SNP are serious about national identity and independence then they will need to ensure that they support their own natural cultural resources. If they are serious about their cultural policy (below) they should want to engage with us. Scottish Government Cultural Policy (cut and pasted from scotland.gov.uk): “The Scottish Government wants to see a culturally cosmopolitan Scotland, capable of attracting and retaining gifted people, where our creative community is supported and their contribution to the economy is maximized. The creative industries generate more than £5 billion of turnover in the Scottish economy. Scotland has talent in abundance and we need to support success.” I can’t seem to reconcile the above policy with what is going on in our industry. If anyone can help please let us know. Let’s keep the ball rolling! I have never been out of work in our industry since well before I graduated. Not being an academic, the Stage Management degree gave me the opportunity to develop skills, experience and confidence that has enabled me to build my own business, now over 5 years old, that directly employs current students and graduates of both QM and RSAMD on a regular basis, due to the methods used to provide for their training in a way which I value and professional level of skills that my clients demand. The show must go on - whatever happens to QM/RSAMD, the industry will find a way to adapt and survive because that is what we do for a living! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ripley Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 John FST are holding a forum on Technical Training during the PerformTech show at the RSAMD on Wednesday 28th May at 2.30 No doubt the QM issue will come up as will the National Skills Academy ideas in Scotland Everybody is welcome, tea and coffee provided! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_Robbo26 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 I have recieved and email from the university itself today which officially announces the closure of the course. I have copied and pasted this below. Dear Thomas It is with regret that we are not able to offer the BA (Hons) Theatre Production this year or in the future. This decision has been made very recently. Thank you very much for your interest in Queen Margaret University and please feel free to contact me with any queries. Best wishesLorna This confirms the storys about the closure of this specific course. So im now on the lookout for another similar course! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightnix Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Educational establishments providing vocational courses should be working more closely with industry to establish what we require of graduates once they come on the job market by getting us involved at an earlier stage in their development.You're not the first to say it and I doubt you'll be the last. I asked a "certain person" in the training world recently, why it was that things like Safety Passports, National Rigging Certificates, basic electrical quals, etc. couldn't be included in the degree courses offered by drama schools. His gloomy (and maybe generalised) reply went something like: "We've tried, but they're not interested in teaching anything they haven't thought of themselves, or anything that shakes up their cosy little luvvie world." We're in danger of arriving at a situation (if we haven't already), where people leaving college in a supposedly "fully trained" state and carrying a significant student debt, find they have to invest hundreds (if not thousands) more in "proper" training if they want to work - or find employers / clients who are willing to sponsor them through it. That said, I think it's also fair to add that the business has done itself no favours either, by being almost wilfully nebulous and evasive at times, about the kind of people it needs. It's only in the last decade or so that the first attempts have been made to define the skills required to do "the job" and indeed what "the job" itself actually is (beyond "whatever it takes..."). Scottish Government Cultural Policy (cut and pasted from scotland.gov.uk): “The Scottish Government wants to see a culturally cosmopolitan Scotland, capable of attracting and retaining gifted people, where our creative community is supported and their contribution to the economy is maximized. The creative industries generate more than £5 billion of turnover in the Scottish economy. Scotland has talent in abundance and we need to support success.”What politicians say and what politicians do are often completely unrelated and both ends of the political spectrum have entrenched, hostile attitudes towards the arts. The Tories have traditionally regarded Theatre as a "non-productive industry", while the Left has viewed it as a playground of the rich and drama schools as private colleges, outside the State system and therefore ineligible for State funding. This may be a little OT, but I think it's a point worth making... What the politicians conveniently forget, is how back in the 1970s, when Britain was the laughing stock of Europe (if not the World) and our manufacturing industry was a joke; it was our actors, performers and popular musicians who maintained what little respect our country still had left on the planet and we continue to produce some of the World's finest and original artistic and creative talent. We're just sh*te when it comes to funding it, that's all :( IMO the choices available to the business include (but are not limited to)...Launch a charm offensive and make further approaches to the existing colleges, for them to start delivering the kind of training and people the industry needs; rather than the ones they think it should have. As a start, maybe one / some of them would be willing to allow Summer Schools to be run on their premises, with discount rates for their students, as an add-on to their coursework or maybe a post-grad thing. I'm sure that, in just two weeks, it would be possible to deliver, say: a Safety Passport; PASMA; forklifts, pickers & scissor lift tickets; rope access / working at height and basic electrics.Attempt to persuade the politicians to better subscribe to their own policies.Enlist well-known celebrities to better publicise the situation and promote "our" solutions. Who knows - some of them may even be persuaded to part with some funding to help the business to......Develop its own training scheme and system of delivery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I cannot comment on the specifics of the QMU saga, but it has to be recognised that the further and higher education sector are of necessity driven by financial and political realities. That doesn't mean that the right decisions always get made, but the notion of education as an altruistic endeavour declined along with the appointment of University marketing departments and the rapid expansion of the sector in the '90s. The answer to "why it was that things like Safety Passports, National Rigging Certificates, basic electrical quals, etc. couldn't be included in the degree courses offered by drama schools" is probably a little more complex than you suggest (although your comment made me smile!). Some of it will be down to the cost of buying in the various training companies, or paying for external examination (e.g. NRC cannot be 'internally' assessed). Some of it will be because 'lower level' skill qualifications may not considered suitable to be separately identified within (say) a degree programme. That might be a practical issue, or it might be one of pride! It might be that electrical or access skills are taught but not formalised within the context of a C&G course or PASMA ticket.Ultimately, it may be that not all students on a given course will want to take on every practical skill - especially if their drama course isn't the springboard to a career but a means to developing their 'intellectual capacity', and they end up selling insurance and time shares! Also, there's the old chestnut of training v. education, and the extent to which vocational skills are best learnt on the job or in a tutorial setting. Do bear in mind though, someone graduating in Electrical and Electronic Engineering isn't an 'electrician' and doesn't have the relevant C&Gs, but might well enter a job designing industrial power distribution schemes. I'm not defending the QMU situation, and I'm all for skills being taught in industry related educational courses, but I'd suggest that sometimes it's not quite as easy to deliver as it might seem. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Happens everywhere. The University of Canterbury Arts faculty is in a financial mess, and the Theatre and Film Studies department is being "restructured" link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzette Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 I have received the following email from the Stage Management Association - others might wish to add their name to the petition .... Dear Members, Please see the message from Gail Pallin below. Many of you might havetrained in Scotland and may wish to add your name to the petition. Hello Some of you may not have heard that QMU can no longer afford to run theTheatre Production and Acting Courses. They will be run out over the next 2 / 3 years. Please help us lobby for equality in conservatoire funding by adding tothe petition in the link below. Many thanksGail 'The online petition now approved and up on the Downing Street websitecalls for equality between Scottish and English training subsidy forconservatoire training in theatre. To view and add to the petition,please visit: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/QMUtraining/<http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/QMUtraining/>Please forward this link to as many people as possible to place thisissue higher on the public agenda.' -- Stage Management Association (SMA)*supporting and representing stage management* The team at the SMA: Barbara Eifler, Executive DirectorSally Palmer, Membership & Office Co-ordinatorKim Hart, AdministratorSara Santos, Assistant Administrator 55 Farringdon Road, London EC1M 3JBTel: 020 7242 9250, Fax: 020 7242 9303website: www.stagemanagementassociation.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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