Frog 2

[RoyF18]

Righto, it's time for me to get another lighting desk and I've been looking a little at the Zero 88 Frog 2. I was going to buy an Avo Pearl, and this is still a possibility, but I want to hear people's opinions of the Frog 2. One of the reasons I would buy a Pearl is because everyone knows how to use it, and with the best will in the world, Zero 88 don't have the best reputation in the live music world.

I have used one briefly a couple of times, and from what I could work out they seem to operate a similar style of programming to the Hog desks and I guess for that reason I got on ok with it. They do seem to be quite powerful and have a lot of the features that I'm after which is what attracted me to it.

Can anyone share any experiences of the desk? I'm interested to hear if people have had any problems with it (and also positive aspects obviously).

I'd rather if it was people who have genuine experience of the desk who reply, preferably not schoolkids who have read the blurb/manual and have formed an opinion based on this only. People with Fat Frog only experience also need not reply - the two desks are worlds apart. (Sorry to sound a bit harsh here but I'm after useful info).

Desk is going to be used primarily for medium-scale music events (tours, festivals etc). May occaisionally do the odd bit of theatre/club and even corporate (if I get desperate).

Thanks in advance for all your help

Roy

[weatherhead]

Hi

I have less experience operating a frog 2 than a fat frog or a leap frog, but I've had a few gos with it. I personally really like it as a desk. I think the control and programming is very intuitive, and the submaster assignment is a lot more fluid than I've seen in other desks. For example, it's hilariously simple to use a sub as a "gang fader" or as a memory master, and I find this facility really useful for busking and for rapid show plotting (for schools or such). Overall it's an easy desk to get to grips with, and you can use it for basic functions without knowing much at all about the programming methodology. I'm not very experienced with movers but I had no problem with the couple of scanners and colour changers we had in the rig at the time.

 

My main work with lighting is for theatrical (when it comes to concerts, I generally do noise duty), and since I only used this desk a couple of times when we hired an external venue, I can't say much about long term reliability etc. However that being said I did think the desk seemed extremely well suited to both theatrical and live work. The cue stack was truly comprehensive. I think despite what I said earlier about flexibility, for live work only I would choose the pearl every time.

 

Yes, it's true that "everyone" knows how to use a pearl, but having said that I think if you were new to lighting overall, rather than just new to a specific desk, the frog would be better to use. I throw this in because you mention commercial stuff. I think the frog is a better choice for that.

 

Dan

[mr_towers]

4 odd page article in a recent L&Si on the Frog 2 lately. Might be worth a read!

 

(Disclaimer - It might have only been 2 pages. Bad memory!)

[smalljoshua]

Pages 26/27 of the April Issue.

 

Josh

[Chris Adam]

Only advice I can give to you is to get yourself off to your local hire company and get your hands on them both with a mover and a generic.

Both desks are good in their own respects and the sales would back this up, but only you can decide if the frog or pearl is right for you.

I would add though that as a touring engineer, I would always prefer a Pearl for quick programming, but again, it's all personal choice.

Good luck and let us know what you buy.

[RoyF18]

Thanks for the replies guys, I read through the article in LSI which was full of positive stuff; makes me wonder...

QMU - I know the Pearl very well (so no need to hire that for a try-out) it's just the versatility that the Frog 2 seems to have over the Pearl thats making me look towards it. I'm in Glasgow also - do you know anyone up here with a Frog 2 to hire?

[peter]

Hi Roy

 

Please feel free to contact me off forum if you'd like me to arrange a demo of the Frog 2 - pkirkup@zero88.com. With regards Frog 2s for hire in Scotland, the closest would be Black Light in Edinburgh.

 

Hope this helps,

 

 

 

Peter

[lxkev]

Hi Roy

 

I can honestly say that I’m one of the most experience users of the frog two in the country :s. We bought one of the first desk on the market, (The 1st was bought by our neighbours The Derby Assembly Rooms) I've used it every night since. I also Beta tested the software for the frog 2 and to be honest at 1st the desk drove me mad, but this was software version 0.1.

First thing I would say is keep an open mind when using this desk and don’t compare it to an Avo pearl...why???? The Pearl a good desk, software is ok, great to busk on, simple and it’s been around for nearly 10 years.. The Frog is only 3 or 4 years old and it does things differently which isn't a bad thing.

 

What's great about it?

 

• Fast to program (once your learn the command line)

• Can be used for an array of different situation, Theatre, busking, live music, show control....

• Individual fade and delay times of every single parameter of a fixture

• Easy to use effect generator, but plenty of scope to create unique effects

• Tones of pallets (I would highly recommend buying an extra external touch screen so you can access to these when busking)

• Support for arkaos media server

• 1000 of places to store data, 1000 cue stacks (controlled by 10 faders), 99 pages of subs and buttons

• Nice riggers remote.

• Easy to patch, DMX in, Art Net, Support for wysiwyg,

 

What’s bad?

 

In terms of functionality and user ability you will be hard pressed to find anyone who can say “"it can’t do x"”. The only problem with this desk is its software is still fairly young (.... when I first got the desk (software vision 0.0) many times I came close to kicking out the window. But the support from zero88 was fab and I haven’t shouted at it in other a year.

 

Occasionally when a new update comes out you might find a minor function doesn't work, but drop them an email and it gets sorted. To be fair the pearl over a decade old and last time I used one it had a nasty bug which wiped your whole show..These things happen.

 

Should you get one instead of an Avo Pearl when Zero 88 don't have the best reputation in the live music world?? I have generally found that the people who say that have never even seen the desk. I spent three years at university using a Pearl and when I started using the FROG 2 towards the end of my degree it was the Pearl I wanted to kick out the window!

 

If you want to talk about anything else about the desk PM your number and I’ll give you a buzz.

 

Kev

[niclights]

Remember that where the Pearl might go wrong, so might the Frog since these are almost certainly hardware issues, often occurring because of the typical environment/handling in the industry. I like the fact you can open up the Pearl if this happens & many parts are standard PC component. Can you open up the Frog in this way? That's a genuine question BTW, not trying to cause an argument!

 

Anyhoo, it's true the Pearl is old - both hardware design and software. I assume Expert is out of budget?

[lxkev]

I've opened the frog (just a few screws) and repaired bits and bobs when its was dropped.

 

End of the day most Lx desk have PC bits insided them..... I beleive the pearl has a standard PC power supply? frog has an external power supply......Which is the easiest to fix? :S

[niclights]

Which is preferable/more convenient...?!

 

No, as I said, no argument, was just curious and a reminder about why strange things could happen with any console.

 

I'm not sure so many consoles do make it that easy open & fix though. It's going to happen, just like that moving light will go wrong! I think always nice to have this as part of the design when it hits the fan...

[RoyF18]

Thanks again, these comments are useful for me. Also thanks to Peter from Zero 88 - I'll be in touch once I'm off the tour I'm on just now.

 

The Pearl Expert isn't out of budget, again I just don't think it's as versatile as the Frog 2. I have seen more than my fair share of Avolites desks crash, although I've also seen Zero 88 desks let people down as well. What I feel is important is when a manufacturer is able to identify a problem with a product (whether it's from user feedback or whatever), quickly get the bug fixed and get the updates out and readily available. As far as I can see, Zero 88 are one of the best for doing this and they are very good at listening to users.

 

I understand about being able to open up a desk and get basic stuff done to it in a hurry. On a recent gig the Diamond out front got hit by a pint, so for this reason it is essential sometimes to be able to whip open the top of a desk quickly and in poor light conditions with just basic tools. Didn't help that particular Diamond though which was dead for the rest of that gig. It's not a deal-breaker, but that kinda thing is useful.

 

As for people that won't give Zero 88 the time of day, I'm not in that category, although I do understand that others that are will make things difficult for me when it comes to time for others to use it. I'm maybe just too young to have that old-man set-in-their-ways attitude which is still very common (or the similarly boring 'someone who has been told what to think/say by someone else instead of trying stuff out and making their own mind up'), I'll quite happily use a lighting desk made by anyone as long as it has all of the features and reliability that I'm after.

[Guest]

I prefer the Pearl over the Frog2 However I do get on fine with the Hog2. if it is live music that involves both moving lights and generics a Pearl would be better especially for thr "buskability" of the desk. if it is much more rehearsed I would go for the Frog as it is not that good "on the fly" and I would just go for a 2008 rather than the expert unless you really wanted the extra features.

 

jon

[LXbydesign]

I have been a Zero User for many years - starting off on the Sirius and then one of my old places of work - we were one of the first venues to purchase a Sirius 250 , which I totally fell in love with at PLASA when it was first showcased.

 

Then over time and venues moving on to the Fat Frog, a desk I have found so invaluble on small / mid stage gig and conferences and finally was eager to use the Frog 2.

 

I found the user definition of it so easy and loved the way you could work the desk how you wanted to. The only reason the newly built venue im in now - for which I was partly responsible for the technical infrastructor design dosent have a Frog 2 at the helm was because the teaching staff wanted a "fader to socket" type set up which is why I specced the leapfrog 96 - ie , plug a light into any socket from 1-96 , push up the named fader and the light comes on!!

 

Sure , a Pearl is more known and set at industry standerd , but its not the be all and end all. If your familiar with Hog2 programming, then this desk is 2nd fiddle - or as mentioned , once you get the command line wrapped up (no worse than a strand) , then its easy. Also , as mentioned , the Pearl is getting a bit dated now, regardless of the Expert and Tiger versions - and I look forward to the future upgrades and development of the Frog2!

[ChrisBogg]

Take a look at the Chamsys MQ100. Its a little like a hog but within budget.

 

I think it would be a serious contender as the OS is more advanced than the Pearl but its still very easy to busk on. Anyone who can use a hog will pick it up with in 1/2 an hour.

 

Chris