Sound Op for a band

[workie2209]

Were is the best place to op a sound desk for a live band that will be playing at weddings and parties. I was thinking directly behind the band in the middle. I am completely new to doing live sound and am trying to feel my way in the dark on this one.

 

Any help

 

Gary

[Bobbsy]

Are you talking about mixing from the stage or from out in the hall facing the stage?

 

If the former, it really doesn't matter. You can't hear what the audience is getting anyway and have to rely on yourself (or somebody else) taking a walk occasionally and coming back with a suggestion (like "more vocals, turn down the bass" or whatever). Just put the mixer someplace out of the way but convenient.

 

If it's the second option, then the classic advice is to be about two thirds of the way from the speakers to the back of the room (avoiding being under balconies though), and just slightly off centre. Clearly, this ideal position is rarely available and compromises have to be struck.

 

Bob

[saturnx21]

and just slightly off centre.

 

I'm intrigued Bob, Why do you suggest "slightly off center" I would have said direct center would have been better but you must know something I don't!

[Shez]

Why do you suggest "slightly off center"

 

You get what's sometimes referred to as a power alley up the centre aisle - the bass from each side combines constructively and sounds rather more powerful than it does anywhere else in the room. Of course, Bob may have another reason in mind...

[Bobbsy]

You're very much on the right track, Shez, but the "power alley" effect is only part of it. For similar reasons you can also get very nasty phase cancellations and comb filtering effects on higher frequencies. I was once forced to do a mix from a point exactly half way between the two speaker stacks and it was one of the strangest experiences ever...moving my head even an inch or two completely changed the sound. I ended up standing at one end of the mixer and reaching across when I needed to do something!

 

Since we're discussing it, the theoretical optimum location for your mixing desk is at a point in the audience at distance which is more than the distance between the two FOH stacks but less than twice that distance...providing that distance doesn't exceed 100 feet (which is approximately 100ms delay). As discussed, the location should be just off the centre line between the two stacks.

 

You will see that this theoretical optimum doesn't always work. For example, in an arena setup, the ">D,<2D" might give you a distance greater than the 100 foot ideal. More importantly, it usually puts you in the middle of the expensive seats. or maybe under a balcony (another no-no) or both.

 

I could count on one hand the number of times I've been in the optimum mix location. In fact, I don't think I've ever been there!

 

Bob

[johndenim]

Without getting to technical, I would just like to add that I have mixed for solo acts and duos, in all kinds of places.

I think one of the fundamental issues here is cable runs, and keeping every thing safe for the audience.

 

trailing large diameter speaker cables, power cables, mics cables etc could cause a " trip factor". If any drunken party goer falls on these I hope you have some good public liability insurance!

 

Advice from me would include: go in and see the venue if possible before hand, is there a buffet in the same room? where is it?

Find a decent place for your PA, considering these factors, and claim it early!

Tape down all of your cables and don't let kids play with your mixer!

 

john Denim. :P

[nothingatall666]

trailing large diameter speaker cables, power cables, mics cables etc could cause a " trip factor"

 

which is why most people here would keep the amps on/under/near the speakers. so that you only need to worry about one multicore(maybe a few for larger jobs) oh and the power cable,

although I've been to places which have a certain amount of power (2x 13A sockets (which could be enough)) in a socket in the floor in the usual mixing position.

[Jivemaster]

Until your band is the reason guests are arriving you will be expected to work round the guests, the hotel staff etc. keep all you can at the back of the band and any cables etc in the guests area are there for tripping on.

 

Part way back and off centre are preferred from a sound engineering pov but this will not be availble for real gigs!

[johndenim]

Agreed. Depending on your area of speciality, we are not all (or is it just me!?) sound engineers for stadium sized venues.

Most of the time when choosing a position alot of it depends on where you are ALLOWED to sit, not much comes down to choice!

 

I'm sure we would all sit where we wanted given the choice, but for those of us who have/do work in the working mens club scene,(just me?) the best place is usually where they sell the bingo tickets! :)

Or where ethel has sat for the last 50 years, thats her favorite seat and she wouldn't move if the blitz happened all over again.

 

 

John Denim.

[mervaka]

did a fair sized gig at an award ceremony the other day, and the listening position got moved after it was set up because................... the "trophy" table was not near enough to the head table.. it seemed more like a tudor banquet! (with pa)

[Bobbsy]

Agreed. Depending on your area of speciality, we are not all (or is it just me!?) sound engineers for stadium sized venues.

Most of the time when choosing a position alot of it depends on where you are ALLOWED to sit, not much comes down to choice!

 

<snip>

 

All very true, but the original question was "where is the BEST place to set up the mixer". Slightly off centre at a specific distance from the main speakers is the answer to this question and gives the OP a goal to aim for. You will note that in my reply I ended by saying it's pretty rare to get this ideal...but that doesn't mean the poster shouldn't at least be aware of it.

 

Bob

[soundgeek]

Hi there

Depending on size - the best place is always at the back of the venue and get someone in to mix your sound. This way you can hear the mix front of house rather than what it is like on the stage. To do this you will need a snake so the cables all get down there. If this is not possible, I would suggest getting it out of the way on the side, but cable lengths might be a problem. If you want any more advice my email is: oli@everyaspecttechnical.co.uk

[johndenim]

Just a thought.

 

I have a sennheiser transmitter (for IEM'S) and a sennheiser reciever, (Mic) freq can be adjusted on both.

 

Would it be at all possible to take the stereo out from the mixer, SEND via the radio equipment to the reciever on stage, then plug the out of that into the amps on stage?

I know it would only save a couple of cables, and

this would probably be a mono mix but my question is, would it work?

 

John Denim.

[Shez]

It would work, but why on earth would you want to? Presumably you're already running a multi from stage to FOH mixer so what's there to gain?

Cables are far cheaper, far more reliable, sound better, easier to trouble shoot... Radio systems really should be a last resort if it's completely impractical / impossible to run a cable.

[johndenim]

I only mention this Shez because my wife also sings solo,

no instruments, just backing tracks on md and a radio mic.

 

(obviously we would need another freq for the mic and another reciever)

I do the sound off stage for her, my P.A is all together so if I found a mains supply, I could sit anywhere without trailing cables.

 

John Denim.

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Oh, and just another thought,

could there be a market for multiband frequency tranmitters/recievers so the problems of trailing cables would be resolved?

 

I know cables are better, as you say, but I wonder if this equipment is available?