Furse control desk questions

[mkbatten]

Hi Guys, at the school I work at there is a lighting system that hasnt been used for a while( well long enough that noone has ANY idea about it).

It is a 18Channel system, with a desk. and 40 sockets and plugs next to the board. linked up to the many lighting bars in the stage ceiling.

Basically when powered up the 3 lights come on the main unit. and when plugged in the 2 lights (power and master) light up. but this is about as good as it gets! I have checked the control and main fuses and they seem all good.

none of the plugs are labled to plug into the correct numbers. and have gone through pluggin random plugs in and ther about about 8 cables that make a light come on. but nothing works with dimming through the desk.(doesnt even make a difference if the desks plugged in!)

Any one have any ideas. of the steps I should be trying things in to try and get this antique working again.

 

many thanks

 

Matt

[paulears]

I'm assuming that if you have 40 sockets, and 40 plugs, then you have a simple patch - 40 plugs is common, but 40 sockets suggests an odd quantity of dimmers - they normally come in blocks of 6. These sockets should be fed from a dimmer rack or a number of separate racks - probably somewhere around. Follow the three thin control cables that come out of the control desk - they should go to the dimmers. Failing that - take some pics.

[Wuddy]

>SNIP< 40 plugs is common, but 40 sockets suggests an odd quantity of dimmers - they normally come in blocks of 6.

>SNIP<

 

40 dimmers is odd by to-days specs. but the patch could be the remains of some old Strand? system.

 

Strand had several systems with dimmers in multiples of four (Junuior 8, HA12, HA16, HA20, HA24 etc) or ten (I think AMC started at 20 to 240 and the 3 set had banks of ten)

 

But if the curent desk is eighteen ways then 40 sockets is odd in that respect, might they be paired up and if 40 sockets suggests 40 dimmers why need a 40 plug patch as you have one dimmer per way.

 

Curiouser and curiouser.

[Bryson]

Photos please. Decent quality and close enough to read any labels.

[Andrew C]

40 dimmers is odd by to-days specs. but the patch could be the remains of some old Strand? system.

Yes, Strand JTMs came in racks of 20, but the OP says "Furse" (insert vomiting smiley). ISTR a local council barn has/had a 10 way pack which may well have been F*****, all the lanterns were.

[Wuddy]

40 dimmers is odd by to-days specs. but the patch could be the remains of some old Strand? system.

Yes, Strand JTMs came in racks of 20, but the OP says "Furse" (insert vomiting smiley). ISTR a local council barn has/had a 10 way pack which may well have been F*****, all the lanterns were.

 

What I was meaning, was that they may have removed something better to install something Furse.

[mkbatten]

Hi guys there are 48 patches not 40,

here are the photos ive just taken on the link to the website below, hope these help!

thanks

Matt

 

http://www.freewebs.com/mkbatten/

[ocfe]

Looks like the flying leads out of the outlet boxes connect back into the dimmer rack as there are 36 of them (18 dimmers x 2 outlets) and the IEC's on the wall are male.

 

Things to check:

On the dimmer rack there is a centre panel between the main switches to the left of the three neons. Remove this panel and it should reveal 18 x 10amp fuses encased in blue enclosures. Do a continuity test on these fuses to find out which ones are working.

 

Also there are 3 control fuses to the left hand side of the rack, with the desk lighting up atleast one of these is probably intact. Its worth doing a continuity check on all three as if one of these is out a bank of 6 dimmers will be lost.

 

Once you have done this have a play with the desk, maybe plug a light directly into the output of a dimmer so you can view everything at once.

 

Your male IEC's on the wall numbered 1-48 will go to lighting outlets on bars etc. To find out where these come out will I think just be a case of plugging and replugging, but a logical order will probably be found after a while.

 

As a note the dimmer probably accepts FMX a furse multiplex signal. However give CCT a call as they might still offer the FMX-DMX convertor kit that might be useful if you're looking to expand the current set up.

 

Hope that helps, any queries please ask.

[ianknight]

It might also be worth checking the DIN cable from the desk to the wall box - you can get 5 pin leads that are mirror image leads so the FMX may not be getting to the rack.

 

Also, from memory that Furse desk had two 5 pin sockets, one has the FMX out signal, the other was intended for an external power supply - you might be plugged into that outlet.

 

I dont come across many of these systems nowadays but the few I have seen, seemed to be quite durable - the desks suffered mainly from broken fader shafts and many of the systems were taken out when schools wanted more dimming channels (which of course couldnt be linked to the FMX).

[simon-carter]

You could also check if the blackout and dipless buttons light when pressed. This might give a clue as to whether the desk and control cable are working correctly.

[daveyp]

Hi Guys,

 

Nice to see someone still trying to use a furse system. I know everyone hates them but have a certain affection for furse kit, reminds me of school in the 80,s.

What you have is a 18 way Furse Delta desk and dimmer rack. Later called Regal when furse was taken over by CCT.

The IEC Sockets on the wall boxes will indeed be wired to the outlets on the lighting bars. Before trying to get the desk working if I were you I would get a standard IEC (Kettle) lead plug it in to the 13a socket and then plug to each socket on the wall box in turn and make a note of which ones currently have lights plugged into them.

 

The 18 dimmers will come out on the IEC Leads coming out of the bottom of the patch boxes. there will be two patch leads per chanel and it usually would go in order (I,e first two iec leads will be chanel 1 etc. Also The end of the iec tails usually have a number on them (and it looks like this is the case from your picture) this relates to the dimmer number (ie the pair of leads marked one will respond to channel 1 on the desk.

 

As ocfe says there is indeed a removeable cover on the front revealing 18 x Reyrolle LC-10 amp fuses.

 

Also test the two 2amp control fuses.

 

Good look

 

PS I have quite a few spec sheets of furse kit . would be happy to send you a copy if you like

 

Dave

[mkbatten]

Hi dave the specs sheets could be useful, have checked the fuses and they are all providing continuity. and the desk lights up correctly when dipless and the blackouts are pressed. but doesnt seem to control the outputs from the dimmer unit. so not sure if the desk is giving the fmx output or not, is there any way to check this??

 

if you could email me the spec sheets to my addy mkbatten at gmail.com

would be great

 

many thanks

Matt

[Shez]

Funnily enough I've got a 24 channel furse desk (same as yours) with a 24 channel delta dimmer (same as yours) in one of the performance spaces where I work. The operation of the blackout / dipless buttons is not at all intuitive (to me anyway) - every time I use it (which is only a couple of times per year) I have to figure out how to get it to work. Try every combination of the switches lit & not lit with faders on each bank up and with the masters up and with the cross fader in either position. Sorry I can't be more specific but as I use it so rarely I really can't remember how it's supposed to work; only that it's not how I would expect it to...

 

If you've got any very specific questions about how things are wired up etc, feel free to ask & I'll have a look for you.