radio mic frequencies, again

[timtheenchanteruk]

just been looking at the new JFMJ website, and after switch over it reckons in my area that 54,56 & 58 will be available indoor.

 

I can find no mention of what is happening to Ch69 de-reg and the VHF de-reg bands, although its not surprising as on the current info JFMG doesn't regulate these bands.

 

SO, when the big switch comes in my area, will I be able to continue to use my de-regd mics, or not. My logic says I will because at the end of the day the majority of people using de-reg mics don`t know, or don't care about the changes, but my scepitcal side says this is government led so logic has nothing to do with it.

 

also I only seem to be able to find info on UHF channels, do the VHF ones not get affected at all by the switch?

[Shez]

To the best of my knowledge, the VHF freqs won't be affected by the switchover.

 

Ch.69 is likely to stay licensed & regulated as it is now, but this isn't yet set in stone. Ch.70 (deregulated) will also stay deregulated but I believe will be open for anybody to use for any purpose which might render it rather unusable for radio mics...

[timtheenchanteruk]

I cant seem to find any info on anything above Ch 62.

 

Just chopped this from JFMG

 

"After digital switchover the frequency ranges 470 - 550 MHz (Ch21 – 30) and 630 - 806 MHz (Ch41 – 62) may continue to be available for wireless microphones and personal monitors."

[Big Dave]

As it stands at the moment, CH69 & 70 should stay as is. CH 31-40 & Ch62 - 67 will be unavailable. However, this is not set in stone and may change again.

 

This Page on JFMG's site is a good regional guide to the current proposed plans.

[Simon Lewis]

I can find no mention of what is happening to Ch69 de-reg and the VHF de-reg bands, although its not surprising as on the current info JFMG doesn't regulate these bands.

 

The VHF deregulated band stays as is, but there are some co-ordinated frequencies above this (but now slightly less as some spectrum near 216MHz was given to digital radio).

Channel 69 remains regulated and (for now) under JFMG's hand. Bear in mind it is a mix of shared and co-ordinated frequencies, and not all of it is for radio mics per se.

The 863-865 MHz slice of channel 70 stays deregulated; JFMG does not have responsibility for this.

 

62 to 68 is going... but with some relaxation up to 2012. This is annoying for those with radio mics that stretch from ~ 830 to 865MHz :)

 

Simon

[timtheenchanteruk]

This Page on JFMG's site is a good regional guide to the current proposed plans.

 

 

thats the page I was looking at.

 

cheers, I do mean Ch70, why I have 69 on the brain I have no idea!!

[Simon Lewis]

UPDATE....

 

OFCOM trumpets its band manager consultation....

 

However, industry watchers are already seeing flaws in the logic... (thanks to John Steven replying to the news item from Audio Pro International)

 

Look at the full document (here) and turn to section 5.69

 

"Channel 69

5.69 We note that channel 69 in isolation is of limited use for PMSE because much of the equipment used by touring companies, who benefit most from channel 69’s national availability, also tunes only to channels 67 and 68. We will discuss with PMSE users whether there is alternative spectrum, comparable in quality and quantity, that could meet their long-term needs better than channel 69."

 

Loosely interpreted, that reads, "OK chaps, we're already taking channels 67 & 68 away from you, so all those Sennheiser etc. users will be stuck with 69 and a slice of 70. We thought that was a bit rough, so we'll think about taking 69 away from you so your system can use only the 4 free to use frequencies". Unless there's some kind of retuning scenario offered by the manufacturers, this renders most typical existing radio mics pretty much useless.

 

Don't take your eye off this one... join BEIRG and tell OFCOM what you think!

 

Simon

 

EDIT:

There are other issues in here that may well affect us - introduction of cognitive devices, the use of higher fees for "better" sections of spectrum, an insistance on the market approach. There's a lot to take in, but a significant amount seems detrimental to PMSE...

[theoholloway]

FWIW, I would think that ch 69 is pretty safe - the fallout from taking it away from small users (charities, small businesses, churches, amateur theatre) would be pretty bad, and given that most ch 69 use is unlicensed, the quality of that spectrum to sell to a potential buyer wouldn't be great.

 

Or, to put it another way, I don't think anyone's going to stop using it - the regulatory framework may change/go away, and the RF noise floor may go up, especially when new users arrive in Ch68, but I think Disco Dave/Pastor Fred will be sticking his one handheld on 854.900 for some time.

 

Oh, and in other news - recent "real world" tests of cognitive devices (i.e. ones that would be licensed on the basis that they avoid everyone else - they'd end up sharing interleaved spectrum with PMSE users) on Broadway and at an NFL game have failed pretty conclusively. But I suppose that they may still get FCC approval, as Google/Microsoft/Philips have pretty deep pockets.

[paulears]

The trouble is that existing users of tunable kit will simply do what they do now - Pick any number, and if it works, use it!

 

Is it just me who gets presented with a small case full of bits and pieces and simply powers them, up, plugs them in, and smiles at the numbers on the display!

 

Last night I had three sennheisers on three really odd channels. In the end, it was simpler to just move the transmitters to channels in our receiver rack, that we have licences for. These acts won't invest in new kit until they have their moneys worth. Licences? I guess some venues will do what I did, but I'd bet many places without their own kit simply wouldn't bother.

[Simon Lewis]

The trouble is that existing users of tunable kit will simply do what they do now - Pick any number, and if it works, use it!

 

Yep... that's how many users run their radio systems, aided and abetted by systems that offer to scan the airwaves and pick a clear channel for them ;-)

 

However, given that 67 and 68 are going (presumably to be filled with some high power signal that precludes local PMSE use) and given that OFCOM are thinking about taking 69 away as well, that doesn't leave very much spectrum for typical tunable systems to work on. The average Sennheiser Evolution or Shure user may well find just 4 frequencies in channel 70 working.

 

It's regrettable that so many work without licences, as it's undermined our argument regarding PMSE usage - even if OFCOM do accept there are many more unlicenced users than those who pay up.

 

Having skimmed through the document, I think there is still a battle to be fought...

 

 

Simon

[Simon Lewis]

Time to resurrect this old, creaking post...

 

We are in danger of losing all of channel 69

 

Remember that in all the proposed changes, we got to keep (most of) channel 69?

 

Remember that the latest OFCOM missive said, "erm, have you thought about not using 69, and throwing your radios away for ones that work elsewhere?"

 

Well, here's the reason, courtesy of JFMG....

 

"26/09/08 Foreign interference to Channel 69

Back in December 2007 Ofcom’s Digital Dividend statement confirmed that Channel 69 would continue to be available for PMSE use under the current licensing arrangements. But in their recent consultation on the DDR band manager award, Ofcom announced they wish to investigate alternative frequencies to Channel 69 with users.

 

The main reason is the gathering momentum within Europe for the creation of a harmonised mobile broadband cluster in channels 61 – 69. When Ofcom made their statement in 2007 it seemed unlikely that this would happen, but as the months have passed it appears that more countries are supporting the initiative.

 

At Ofcom’s band manager stakeholder meeting on 17 September, they explained that Channel 69 would be included in the band manager’s licence to be awarded at the end of 2009. However, they stated that the likely cost of the licence for the band manager would be extremely high because of the high value of the alternative use (mobile broadband). Whilst the full cost would be phased in over some years, this coupled with the fact that 69 would be isolated from the remaining wireless mic allocation come 2012, could mean it would be beneficial for PMSE users to migrate somewhere else in the long run.

 

Whilst no decision has been reached, it is important for Channel 69 users, including Shared UHF Wireless Microphone licensees, to be aware that continued use may be at risk in the long-term".

 

 

Go on... join BEIRG, shout at people, write letters...

 

Simon

[Russ83]

OK, whats the bottom line of all this licence confusion going to be?

 

If this continues surely there will be thousands of radio mics and IEMs out there that are going to be worth absolute zip in the next few years.

 

My Sennheiser G2 kit goes from 830.000Mhz to 866.000Mhz.

-> Will there be a licence free band allocated that these will work in?

-> If not, will Sennheiser issue conversion kits?

-> In a couple of years will I be the pissed off owner of a rack full of scrap metal?

 

I'm not even going to ask what I'm supposed to do with the licence free, fixed frequency AudioTechnica gear at work as I can probably guess the answer!!

 

Is anyone actually selling equipment that is guaranteed to work after digital switchover or are there no confirmed frequencies yet? (apart from VHF)

[/rant]

 

Lots of questions, surely there must be some answers...

[Bobbsy]

You'd think there'd be answers only three and half years before it's all supposed to happen...but you're not reckoning on the mix of government and greed.

 

At one point it seemed certain that Channel 69 would continue to be available for radio microphone use but Simon Lewis' post shows that this is now back in the pot.

 

No, nobody is selling gear guaranteed to work after 2012--because the wonder of bureaucracy that is OFCOM hasn't decided what will be legal then. For that matter, despite nice words about listening to the entertainment industry, there's no real guarantee that there'll be ANY spectrum. As mobile comms providers get out their chequebooks, all the fine words may evaporate.

 

It's a mess--and what is likely to happen is that hundreds of thousands of users just keep going on illegal frequencies with varying degrees of interference happening.

 

Oh, and your fixed frequency AT units? I suppose they're too light to be a doorstop. If you painted them black, could they be goth earrings?

 

Bob

[timtheenchanteruk]

and all of this is the reason Im using old kit, and not upgrading as I`d intended, no point in me spending 3 or so grand on new radios for them to be very expensive door stops/paper weights in 3 years!

 

I am wondering, me being a big sceptic, if they do decide to get rid of 69/70 to wander round in their detector van/whaever the moder equivilent is to catch all those unsuspecting mic users!

[paulears]

Interestingly, in the states the same thing is happening and users are trying to get the manufacturers to agree to free band changes - Sennheiser get mentioned, but won't commit to a a mass free band change programme. Funny how our American cousins seem to think that buying kit that becomes illegal to use is not their problem, but the manufacturers? Here we moan at the Government - there, it's never the Governments fault. Good news is that if they agree to an update programme over there, maybe, just maybe we will get the same here?