Dry Ice

[gav8298]

Hi people.

 

Head of dance is determined she wants dry ice for this years dance show. I disagree and want to go for a "less is more" approach. Her excuse is that the dances are all to be themed around fantasy/wizard etc (nice cutting edge content then!).

Anyway, I've never used the stuff before. Can anyone let me know of anything I should be aware of before I try and sort it out?

[mark_s]

Have you considered using a low smoke machine? It'd probably be far less work and hassle, while giving you the same effect.

[Ynot]

Dry ice is a great effect for many reasons, and if used appropriately and properly usually kicks the butt of the majority of low cooled smoke effects.

 

If using CO2, there are definitely safety questions to be addressed, ie the fact that the ice WILL burn skin if handled incorrectly, and you also need to watch the build up of the fog - if you have a sunken orchestra pit, for example, it's best NOT to smother them in carbon dioxide...! (Though some muso's might benefit from a bit of suffocation...! ;))

 

My experiences with cooled smoke (limited) have been that if the air about the stage is cool enough, the effect can be great, BUT if there's a lot of heat around (eg if you're using a lot of heat generating lights) then it can often rise too quickly, and look more like smoke than fog.

 

Try getting a cooled smoke on demo and see how it goes, but bear in mind that you'll need to replicate the ambient temp of your show to properly judge the effect.

[gav8298]

Yeah it gets pretty hot in the auditorium area so I'll probably not get away with low smoke.

I'm not sure of the behaviour of dry ice as I've never used it before- surely with vigourous dancing it would get kicked about a lot making the stage look messy? also floor lighting would be useless as well.

I don't like this idea, so I've a OT question- what's the best way to tell a director their idea isn't a very good one?

[Ynot]

Yeah it gets pretty hot in the auditorium area so I'll probably not get away with low smoke.

I'm not sure of the behaviour of dry ice as I've never used it before- surely with vigourous dancing it would get kicked about a lot making the stage look messy? also floor lighting would be useless as well.

I don't like this idea, so I've a OT question- what's the best way to tell a director their idea isn't a very good one?

All depends on how/when you use it.

With lyrical dance type numbers with a small number of twirlies on stage, the swirl of the ice can look quite nice.

But if you have a stage full, no - it won't last too long if they're all kicking off!

 

As with any effect, dry ice is best if used sparingly - ie NOT for ebery other number (cos that'll also get expensive!).

Choose the number(s) with care where you'd like to use it - as I suggest, keep it to relatively small numbers of dancers, with more lyrical/balletic styles. NOT a good idea as a rule for tap/jazz!

 

Floor lighting useless? Far from it. Stick some floor cans or similar on the deck with nice strong colours, especially from upstage towards the punters or as side lights across stage and you'll get som nice pick up in the ice fog. This is one area that LEDs could well win out as well being used as kickers.

If you can get a low stand with a couple of profiles projecting gobos at floor level thru the fog, that's also a nice effect.

 

You will, of course, need a supplier of the solid CO2, of which there are a variety around the country. Also you WILL need somewhere to store the stuff - search the BR for dry ice topics - there are a couple, including some discussions on storage, but one thing worth repeating - DO NOT EVER store CO2 in your home freezer! Yes, use a dead one to take advantage of the insulated box, but using a live one will soon see it becoming dead!

[GridGirl]

To add to what Ynot has said regarding storage, you'd need to get the CO2 delivered every couple of days as well - as even if you store it in a well-insulated box, it sublimes away fairly quickly over time. The LeMaitre LSG (the newer model isn't called that though, I don't think) is a very good low smoke machine - uses liquid CO2 to cool the smoke and I've had good success with it, even in a warmer environment.

[kingjohno]

I would seriously advise, as I am in a similar position, to go for a 'low fog machine', which uses ice, instead.

 

The transportation of dry ice is quite hard, as is it's use in schools according to our governing body.

 

The same effect can be achieved easier, and probably cheaper by going for a low fogger.

[dbuckley]

Yes, and keep that freezer outside or in some other really well ventilated area; as your dry ice vanishes in storage its becoming CO2 gas, which is heavier than air, and thus will congregate in the lowest point it can find. It can congregate to the point where the local atmosphere will not support life.

[Steve Cavill]

Le Maitre G150 or G300 plus the Dry Ice attachment.

 

Works on Liquid CO2 (CO2 Syphon Tank), can even get you the Air Products order code if needed.

[Ben Lawrance]

Going back into the "low fog" route for a moment, the Martin Glaciator is a fantastic machine.

 

Having used them a number of times, I can say that the "faff about" factor wins for me hands down. Plug it in, let it cool, send it DMX. Jobs a goodun.

 

You can also use ducting to put the fog where you want.

 

Try and get a demo.

[smalljoshua]

If this is a School Dance Show most science depatments can get hold of and store Dry ice for you.

 

It is what I am doing for the Schools musical "The Rock Monster Show".

 

Josh

[pyromonkey]

Having Glaciators, Londoners and the Freezefog pro at my fingertips I’ve found the Freezefog pro has always come out on top. Co2 Bottles from your local gas supplier. Great units in conjunction with the G300. can be supplied with DMX remote/ Manual remote. Can stretch up to 8mins off one bottle. Ducting helps with the noise of the co2 and distribution Pm if you’re after more information. Pyromonkey

[scjb]

Gav,

 

Do also be aware that low smoke\dry ice is great for slow numbers, but if there's any significant amount of movement, you will tend to get a lot of "rise" that can have unintended comic effects...!

 

Another vote for the LSG\Freeze Fog Pro, much much easier logistically than dry ice (God I hate having huge kettles on stage) and more effective than Glaciators (in my experience).

 

Have fun with the show!

[Roderick]

Another thing to keep in mind is that dry-ice will leave the floor wet and slippery when used too long.

If you are using a Marley, Harlequin or similar dance floor, you can use dry-ice for about 20 seconds before the floor gets slippery.

[Sirch Sound]

You can also use ducting to put the fog where you want.

 

Are you sure? The only way I have seen people duct a glaciator is by siloconing/ hot glueing a bit of pvc pipe over the grille on the front, however im no SFX guy so I might just not have been on a project with a budget big enough to stretch to ducting systems!

 

Rich