foh nd monitor mix from one "quality" desk

[The Boogie Man]

Hi troops,

 

I'm trying to find a desk that does the same as my behinger ub2222 used to do but " high end" quality. ( not that there was anything wrong with my old desk, I loved it.)

 

What I'm after is the ability to send the mix to foh and mons, split at the desk, with the the faders on the desk, so the levels for each can be adjusted without reaching for the attenuators on the mon amps.

 

I recently bought a soundcraft 200 cheap and although it's a lovely desk, if you want to send two mixes out of it via the sub groups you have to split the sound coming into the desk as it sends to either 1+2 or 3+4.

 

I only need 10 to 16 ins and two stereo outs, but level indication for both outs would be good.

Most of the desks I've seen that have multi outs are huge. the only desks I've seen that allow me to send the same channel to 2 or 3 loations similtaniously are the behringers. Are there others?

I know I can just buy another Behringer, but I like the individual rack strips on the high end desks ( repairability )

cheers

baz

[Ben Langfeld]

Any desk with pre-fader auxes will do what you want. At that number of inputs, you might want to look at the A&H MixWiz. Excellent desk for the money.

 

Edit: Apologies - just realised you meant you wanted the main mix to go to the monitors. Few options here - use post fader auxes set to the same level for each channel or use a digital desk. With a show such as yours, which if I remember makes use of lots of MIDI for lighting etc, a digital desk would provide you with opportunities to be more adventurous with the mix. The 01v96 is very reasonably priced for the features, and you can leave all that nasty outboard at home (or better still, sell it to some other poor soul who enjoys pain).

[The Boogie Man]

Cheers Ben, yes I know I can use the aux's, but it's fiddley for a full mix adjustment on the fly. I must admit I havn't looked at digital desks ( yet ) it's the idea of layers and having everything in one box that scares me a little but they are the future I suppose.

[dbuckley]

As I understand it, you want just one mix, but being able to control that one mix output level a few times over.

 

This is what matrix out desks do. Trouble is, matrix outs are generally a function of higher end desks.

 

A&H GL2400 is probably the start point here, but a 16 channel GL2400 is (physically) a fairly large desk.

 

Other alternatives include a zone or matrix controller in your rack 'after' your mixer, have a look at Thomann for matrix mixers for some ideas. Or maybe a Shure Auxpander, which is a handy zoner.

 

The Peavey Digitool MX will do what you want, and do crossover and limiter duties, and is one of the cheapest magic digital boxes, but it has no knobs, so you would need a couple of it's control plates screwed into a rack plate, or just a couple of pots on a rack plate.

 

Another possibility is a loudspeaker processor with multiple outputs.

 

Or forget mixers altogether, and go soundweb or Symnet, and mix from a lappie.

 

As ever, loads of options

 

Edited for spelling, heck, even I should know the difference between a rack and a rake

[The Boogie Man]

Hi David,

 

I'll look into a couple of them options for after mix seperation, but I can do that now as the sound pases through several units that have balanced XLR and quater inch jack outs so the mix can be split quite easily at the comp/limiter or even post eq.

I had thought about line level splitters, but I like the idea of being able to look at the desk and see the led's for both foh and mons and adjust accordingly.

[dbuckley]

I hear you.

 

The only normalish desk I know of with an extra stereo out is the MixWiz 20S, which is a very odd desk indeed as it's intended for mostly stereo sources, and even though it has a knob for the second output, it still only has one stereo LED meter.

 

Having said that, since in your setup one output is for the onstage monitors, I think you'll know if they are too quiet or possibly even too loud, without LED assistance...

[Rob_Beech]

I'd certainly stick with the Matrix option that David mentions first off. It's accurate, does exactly what you need it to do and more, which gives you flexibility and the possibility to expand. It's all in one box so you're not relying on complicated patching to get it working and it's not THAT expensive. (What you class as expensive may of course differ from what others do.)

 

Rob

[The Boogie Man]

Hi Rob, which of davids suggestions do you mean?

[MarkPAman]

Allen & Heath's WZ 14:4:2 would give you plenty of options for outputs, with 4 subs + L&R and matrix outputs. Group faders can be individually assigned to auxes for monitoring giving yet more options. I used to have the first version of this desk & loved it.

 

The meters on the groups & L&R are rather small (4 leds), but if this is important to you a rack-mount meter or two could solve that one.

[mervaka]

I used to have the first version of this desk & loved it.

I still have the first version of that desk it gets rather a lot of use! highly recommended.

[The Boogie Man]

Cheers guys, As you've both used them, am I correct in thinking that a full mix can be assigned to 1+2 3+4 and l+r similtainiously, or does the architecture follow the 14 to 4 to 2 rule as in lowering the main l+r lowers the 4 sub groups or removing the level at the sub groups removes the level at the main L+R, like my sound craft does.

 

It looks as if it works the same way as the behringers,but I want to be certain before digging deep.

 

editd to clarify, I mean can all the channels be assigned to give the mix at 1+2 3+4 and l+r.

[iamchristuffin]

A&H GL2400 is probably the start point here, but a 16 channel GL2400 is (physically) a fairly large desk.

 

 

Third (or maybe fourth?) big thumbs up for this mixer.

[MarkPAman]

Each channel can go to 1&2 and/or 3&4 and/or L&R (or nowhere if you only want to send it to an aux). Subs can go to L&R, or not.

[The Boogie Man]

Cheers mark, It sounds like it does eactly the same as my old ub2222, but with a few extras like the +48 on each channel etc.

 

In terms of transarency, how does it sound? does it in fact add much warmth to the sound as a lot of people claim the better desks do or is what goes in what comes out?

[MarkPAman]

IMHO it'll sound much better than your old Behringer (which is no long available in Europe due, I assume, to WEEE). Better pre amp, & better build quality all round. I think the thing that'll make the biggest difference though is the much nicer eq. with the extra swept band.

 

Note that there's no built in effects in this model though.