Le Maitre Pyro Effects

[FaithlessRock]

Hi,

 

I have two questions regarding Le Maitre pyro:

 

I am looking to buy Le Maitre pyro effects (the cartridges rather than the hardware) and can only seem to find them online available in packs of 12, etc. Does anyone know where they are available to order at a reasonable price individually as I don't want to have to fork out and buy complete packs of all the different effects.

 

Secondly, I was wondering if it is possible to use the effects without the Le Maitre hardware? I know this sounds odd and quite possibly unsafe but having not used them before I don't know how they operate. Can they simply be attached to an electrical supply to ignite them similar to fireworks with e-matches, or are they more complex than that and can only be used with the proper hardware? Sorry in advance to any Le Maitre Guys out there who I may have just offended, but if I am able, I would like to not have to buy loads of flashpods, etc.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Mark

[samtanner332]

Hi Mark

 

You can only buy Le Maitre effects in boxes of 12 or more. I have never known them for sale in smaller quantities. If you are going to be using effects you should always use them with the specified equipment for firing and never any other way.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Thanks

 

Sam

[bjkered]

Hello Mark

 

It depends on which effects, some of the larger ones come in single units and the smaller ones in packs

 

I would always say use the L Maitre boxes etc

 

Any thing is possible, but that way you get rid of some of the Health and Safety concerns as well as risks ( by no means all). With Pyro Health and Risk comes first so allways use the proper systems.

 

Even Fire works companies I work with dont mix the systems. They use firworks controllers for fireworks and Stage Effects controllers for Stage Effects.

 

Like every thing it can be bodged BUT DO NOT mess with Pyro or Fireworks or it will back fire ( sorry about the pun)

[AndyJones]

There is out on the net (and Blueroom) a link to a build your own pyro firing kit. I seem to remember it being mentioned no so long ago?

 

HTH

 

AndyJones

 

Edit: I'm feeling kind. Linky

[Jivemaster]

Every question you can think of AND more will be answered for you if you do one of Lincoln's Pyro awareness courses -Strangely there's a pinned topic at the head of this forum!http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=18138

[dbuckley]

Clive Mitchell a/k/a Big Clive also has a design, linky.

[p.k.roberts]

It might also be worth looking at an alternative manufacturer such as TPL

 

http://www.tplpyro.co.uk/pyrotechnicpots.html

 

who may be able to supply other quantities and certainly used to manufacture 'wire ended' versions of their effects.

[Jamie Everington]

Hi Mark

 

You can only buy Le Maitre effects in boxes of 12 or more. I have never known them for sale in smaller quantities. If you are going to be using effects you should always use them with the specified equipment for firing and never any other way.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Thanks

 

Sam

 

Sam is right, I would never attempt to fire a pyro from anything other than the correct hardware. Remember insurance would be void if someone got hurt.

 

If you are looking for Pyros get a couple of quotes as I got my pyros very cheaply as the two companies kept bringing down the price to compete with the other.

[Jivemaster]

With all pyro the transport hazard class depends on the packaging. If you open the box and change the contents then the hazard class testing isn't valid.

[slipstream]

Sam is right, I would never attempt to fire a pyro from anything other than the correct hardware. Remember insurance would be void if someone got hurt.

That's complete rubbish, you can fire any pyro in any method providing you can assess the risk safely. Hardware is neither here nor there, unless you plan to balance the pods on a pile of shredded paper and fire it from a mains plug labeled "always keep on"

 

On the quantities issue - you want to try the effect a few times before doing it with the producer present and then the talent present and then with the audience. Buy it and fire it on the night is SUCH a bad idea, if the job will not run to a box of 12 (£40?) for most small effects, walk away. Effects are always bigger than you remember from the last venue, and they will forget you saved £30 when you scare the talent into stopping the performance and scorch the set, cause you were sure it was a small effect.

 

Sam ( a different one)

[scjb]

Le Maitre pyrotechnics must only be used in conjunction with Le Maitre firing systems or Le Maitre approved devices. Any approved device will have written approval from Le Maitre. No liability of any sort will be entertained by Le Maitre where pyrotechnics are used with an unapproved firing system.

 

That's from the Le Maitre website. Other manufacturers have similar disclaimers.

 

How many times does it have to be said? Use the right kit for the right job. If you don't, and something goes wrong, you're screwed! Depending on the size of the ######-up, that means losing anything from the time it takes to fill out the paperwork, all the way up to losing your house.

 

No offence to "Big Clive" and his ilk, but the kit they experiment with and build is not meant for the working world.

[Ike]

There really is a lot of crap talked about home brew controllers. There is absolutely no reason why someone with a basic knowledge of electronics and pyrotechnics can't build a perfectly safe system with a little thought.

 

In general pyrotechnics companies low end hardware is ridiculously overpriced and they know they can get away with it because of attitudes like this. Nobody will build their own or go near a third parties because of worries of legal action, 'health and safety' or just shear ignorance.

 

Why would you be screwed if something was to go wrong? Surely you will have risk assessed the situation and taken appropriate steps to mininimise any risks as far as is practical? If so there is no way whatsoever you will be screwed (in any negative sense...).

 

Seriously I think we can do without this whole attitude, it really doesn't benefit anyone except the pyro manufacturers who (IMHO) shouldn't be overcharging for their hardware in the first place.

 

I've seen lots of professional pyrotechnicians working for very reputable clients and almost every single one of them has used some form of custom built firer or modification, not because they cant afford the real thing but because it doesn't meet their needs and isn't good value for money.

[scjb]

I know this is getting seriously off-topic, and I fully expect to be chastised, however...

 

I've just had a quick look at the Big Clive firing unit. Mono 1\4" jacks as the connector of choice, unshrouded fire button and a PP3 as the source. Would the first person to troll up to Wembley Arena with one of them please let me know. It's been a long time since I saw Brent Council with a smile on their face.

 

This is getting boring now. Yes it's perfectly possible to build a box with a couple of switches that will fire pyrotechnics successfully, and to do so for less money than it would be to buy something that does the same thing. That's not the point here. Why would you be screwed? Because in the event of a product failure that results in damage or injury, you are giving the manufacturer a get-out. Whether the home-made controller was safe or not, the product was not being used by the user in accordance with the manufacturers specifications. Therefore you have no-one to pass the buck along to. Of course, you may believe that pyro always behaves perfectly, and that the legal profession have no interest in self-advancement, and that ###### never happens.

 

I don't know about you Ike, but when I renew my insurance, my brokers are interested in the product I use and the control systems I use. I believe that's for a reason.

 

Risk Assessments? Hell yes, but do you really believe that in the event of an accident a Risk Assessment will protect you from prosecution? I'm under no illusion there. My opinion is that if an accident happens that causes injury, then you either screwed up, or you failed to spot the risk, or you failed to implement appropriate control measures, or you were the victim of an unlucky product failure. But then you're using the product as specified by the manufacturer, so you're covered, right?

 

Is Le Maitre\Sky High\whoevers bottom-end firing kit overpriced? Yep (in my opinion)! Do I approve? Nope! My personal opinion is that for that end of the market the firing kit ought to be heavily subsidised by the manufacturer.

 

This is a ramble, and I apologise for that.

[dbuckley]

My battery powered (4 x AA cell) home made pyro controller with banana socket outlets and unshrouded fire buttons got inspected and passed by the GLC back in the day. The majority of the information I used to build it was in an ABTT publication about pyrotechnics, which published full circuit diagrams of controllers.

[Ike]

If it was a cartridge failure that caused the accident I don't see how the manufacturer could pass the buck despite their disclaimers. Now if your system had an obvious fault such as not supporting the cartridge, the socket spacing being too wide causing damage to the cartridge or you firing it from a supply of several kV with negligible internal resistance it would be a different matter but with a well built system working to the electrical spec publicly available from most manufacturers you shouldn't have a problem. This is in my opinion rather irrelevant anyway as if there was to be an incident I would assume most manufacturers would want a low profile settlement rather than a drawn out public battle with insurance company lawyers.

 

I suspect people are being a little too overcautious when it comes to the possibility of litigation...

 

Please note I am not a lawyer and none of the above should be construed as legal advice.