Guns

[richard]

Hello

 

I have a show coming up that need a gun to be fired on stage, however we are having big problems finding anything that is able to be used without a licence as apparently the rules have all changed to make things difficult.

 

Does anyone know of anything that we can legally and safely use, that will still work (sound effects look rubbish)

 

Thanks

 

Richard

[Tom]

Richard,

Have you read this: HSE Management of Firearms and other weapons...

 

I've not had a close look at it but it does seem to distinguish between different types of weapon and between "licensed armourers" and "competent persons".

 

Maybe there is a way around it there, if you can get somebody trained up.

[Andrew C]

Might be worth talking to suppliers. Bapties, Alan Meek etc. We had the same sort of question, and the answer was "The gun you're hiring is exempt" or some such.

[PeterT]

There was a discussion about this a while ago in the Safety Forum If it's a small pistol you're after have you tried a licenced gun shop? Most sell blank firing weapons that are legal to use without a licence. Failing that get in touch with Howarth Wrightson Ltd in Manchester who do proper theatrical blank firing weapons for hire.

 

Howarth Wrightson Ltd.

 

Tel (0161) 3350220

 

Peter

[Tom]

If it's a small pistol you're after have you tried a licenced gun shop? Most sell blank firing weapons that are legal to use without a licence.

Are you sure they are legal?

 

The HSE document defines a firearm as:

firearm(s) includes not only those weapons which are controlled by the Firearms Acts but also includes those that discharge explosive gases (blanks), pellets by compressed gasses (air pistols/rifles), starting pistols, or any form of projectile including shotgun pellets, bullets, musket balls;

and states that

An armourer must be engaged where a firearm is to be held or used by someone who is not working within the privileges of their own licence, such as an actor. The armourer must be competent and experienced in such work.

[smeggie]

hi

 

firstly and most importantly - NEVER USE NORMAL BLANK FIRERS ONSTAGE!

 

they use the same system as normal weapons but instead of lead, they put in more powder and wadding.

this comes out at the same speed as a live round and will do just as much damage.

 

[for more info on this, look for a similar thread on this board from a few moths ago]

 

get a theatrical weapon that is certified for close quarters use.

cheers

andrew

[Blame Jono]

firstly and most importantly - NEVER USE NORMAL BLANK FIRERS ONSTAGE!

I'll second that and you're looking at 50ft of crap out of the end of a blank firing rifle.

You'd kill someone at close range and you'll start a fire as well.

I made the same point on the thread Andrew mentioned in the Safety forum.

[sam.henderson]

Howarth Wrightson Ltd.

 

Tel (0161) 3350220

 

Peter

I have had experiance and communciations with this company and they are very good and proffessional.

 

Sam

[RJS]

Howarth Wrightson Ltd.

 

Tel (0161) 3350220

Anyone know if they have a web-site?

[PeterT]

firstly and most importantly - NEVER USE NORMAL BLANK FIRERS ONSTAGE!

I'll second that and you're looking at 50ft of crap out of the end of a blank firing rifle.

You'd kill someone at close range and you'll start a fire as well.

I made the same point on the thread Andrew mentioned in the Safety forum.

If you're getting stuff out of the end of the barrel then your weapon is NOT a Blank firing one. A Proper Blank firer has a blocked barrel and a special vent either to the side or on top of the barrel to allow the exhaust gases to escape. It is also made of a special alloy that will disintigrate if an attempt is made to modify it to fire live rounds.

 

As far as I am aware a licence is not required for a purpose built blank firing weapon that cannot be modified to fire live rounds.

 

Though I would say that an armourer is a good idea if a weapon is used on stage but Howarth Wrightson will give you all the up-to-date information

 

As regards their website: I don't believe they have one ,sorry.

[Ellis]

firstly and most importantly - NEVER USE NORMAL BLANK FIRERS ONSTAGE!

I'll second that and you're looking at 50ft of crap out of the end of a blank firing rifle.

You'd kill someone at close range...

When I was in the CCF at school, we used blanks in live-firing .303 Number 8 rifles. (From memory) We were told that they were lethal to 15 feet and could cause an injury to 50 feet.

 

This was compared to a range of 3 miles with live amunition.

 

As a consequence, rule number 1 was "Do not point a gun at anyone, even in jest"

 

Even a starting pistol is potentially dangerous. If at all possible, a competent person should fire something like a starting pistol in the wings for the sound effect, and the actor react to this and, god forbid, act like the non-firing replica in their hand has just fired.

[smeggie]

hi

when I was in the CCF at school(last june), we used the L85 A1 - aka the SA-80, these fired both normal live rounds and blank rounds. these were normal assault rifles, sp we were trained as such.

 

those weapons that are in circulation as 'blank firers' are simply normal weapons with a bar across the barrel to stop live rounds passing through.

theatrical weapons are adapted to vent their gasses and debris out via the sides vents that are specifically fitted for this,

 

that type of weapon is safe to use in close quarters and NONE OTHER.

what I'm trying to say is to avoid like the plague the type of weapon that is available on the high street as they Will severly injure anyone in close contact with them.

 

the type described earlier is the proper theatrical type of weapon.

cheers

andrew

[PeterT]

those weapons that are in circulation as 'blank firers' are simply normal weapons with a bar across the barrel to stop live rounds passing through.

 

No, I'm sorry Smeggie, but you are wrong about that. These weapons are known as de-activated weapons and are not permitted to be practical in any way. In fact I'm pretty sure obtaining a de-activated weapon is illegal these days as it can be too easily re-activated.

 

theatrical weapons are adapted to vent their gasses and debris out via the sides vents that are specifically fitted for this,

 

that type of weapon is safe to use in close quarters and NONE OTHER.

what I'm trying to say is to avoid like the plague the type of weapon that is available on the high street as they Will severly injure anyone in close contact with them.

 

Well I myself own two Blank firers as does the College I work for and they were all bought either from a Gun shop, an army surplus place or from a mail order company and all have sealed barrels with vents as described in my previous post

[RJS]

The rules relating to the use of weapons onstage can be found here

[Tom]

The rules relating to the use of weapons onstage can be found here

Which is what I said two days ago. :D