Array's Vs Cluster's

[Shaggy]

But by creating the J curve you compromise the 'line-source'-ness of the array.

I'm not an expert on these things but thinking about it, it's not an amazing compromise. At low frequencies where the (generally front loaded cone) is basically omnidirectional on its own, and the distance between the woofers is much the same depending on the rigging you've still got a line array, it will still couple and the small difference in distance will make a not great difference at long range. Close range at high frequencies the array is not really a line array but a bunch of horns which will exhibit signs of comb filtering, so the curve will help reduce the comb filtering. At long range at high frequencies (when the path length difference to a spot between horns is less than a 1/4 of the wavelength) horns pointing at the spot will couple mainly constructively, but the horns on the curve aren't pointing there.

How wrong is that?

[Simon Lewis]

Mac,

 

You are correct - I should have phrased it along the lines of "the very narrow vertical dispersion of a straight hang will provide coverage which is ideal in some circumstances, but inappropriate in others, hence the development of ......."

 

Simon

[Ken Hughes]

..... The Vox 4 x 10 column !!!!!!

[BobTheSound]

Hey Ken, whats a Vox 4x10 column ??????

[Ken Hughes]

The PA of the Day.

[RustyBrooks]

What nobody seems to have pointed out, is that Line array, or curvlinear thingymijig, whatever you want to call a hang, is a damned sight faster to fly, takes up loads less truck space, and weighs a lot less than a comparable c4/wavefront type array, so, save masses of time stuffing stuff into a gig, save loads of space in wings/on risers, as you need less racks of amps to drive the whole shebang, and most of the time, in my experience, you can fly a line array on your own, be it a little martin rig, or a 18hang of d&B Jseries, thus needed less crew, and spareing them to get the multicore/heavy mains dragged in, while you mince about clipping little bits of speaker together. Big box arrays, mmmm, stacking boxes, transformer bars! Marking out a five/6wide d&B c4 rig, how to make a rigger hate you forever "Yes I need this triangulated points exactly hear, hear and hear" ... line array, one point, or, two points 1.2m apart front to back... normally dead hangs too...

 

Now that is the real advatage of line array, as well as the more usual increased pattern control, more uniform coverage, better sight lines.... though tools for jobs, C4 is still stunning 15years on... its just being surpassed by new technology.

 

If you don't like line array, you're not flying it right/don't know what you're doing, or have heard somone make a hash of it.

 

Take glastonbury, main stage sound quality completely overshadowed by second stage... or so I heard.

[Seano]

What nobody seems to have pointed out, is that Line array, or curvlinear thingymijig, whatever you want to call a hang, is a damned sight faster to fly, takes up loads less truck space, and weighs a lot less than a comparable c4/wavefront type array

 

Often the case but not necessarily so. Some of the big line array systems out there have horribly fiddly flying systems and go up/come down less than smoothly. From a rigging point of view its pretty alarming sometimes to see the whole stack hanging from one of its two motors and getting bounced around as the system tech struggles to get pins in/out and there always seems to be someone on the local crew who needs to be watched every second or he'll lose a few fingers.

 

Conversely there are point source systems that are a joy to work with. D&B C7 for example - line 'em up on the floor, biscuits in, chains go 'click', rinse and repeat - and you can stack them to the roof of the truck with two large locals.

 

Sean

x

[basilbrush1982]

Take glastonbury, main stage sound quality completely overshadowed by second stage... or so I heard.

 

Try doing a search on BR and you'll see it's not down to the system but the noise constraints and strange climate conditions. There had been problems in previous years with line array etc.

 

You need the right system for the right job. If you have a very wide venue you can't just fly two line arrays next to each other. Also I've flown some line arrays that are quite hard to fly with two of you but point source systems that are dead easy so I don't think you can say one is better than the other. I get incredibly frustrated by people that just put a line array in because it is their best system or what the client wants without actually deciding whether it is the system that can do the job the best.

[RustyBrooks]

Conversely there are point source systems that are a joy to work with. D&B C7 for example - line 'em up on the floor, biscuits in, chains go 'click', rinse and repeat - and you can stack them to the roof of the truck with two large locals.

 

Sean

x

 

Sean, I'll give you that d&B is a breeze to fly, and quick, and extremly satisfying to watch a good crew fill a truck with wall after wall of c4 as quick as you can get it to the ramp, but I have to argue that I find it quicker to fly a line array, even v_Dosc, with the hideous angles that get all over the place are quicker to sort out than studs and chains, and if I'm feeling butch can get a hang of it up just about on my own, though the martinw8l/lc, and d&B Jseries, quarter the time, and can do it on your own if your pushed for time, or production have cut your crew call, without breaking a sweat.

 

You must, as a rigger, prefer putting the points in for a line array, in the bigger gigs? Hate marking out transformer bar pickups, triangulations, and inch perfect measurments. Grrr

 

Anyway, think all I may have done, is confirm that its back to personal choice.... I just dangle the stuff, and try and point it in the right direction.

Jon

x

 

Edited for clarity

[Seano]

but I have to argue that I find it quicker to fly a line array, even v_Dosc, with the hideous angles that get all over the place are quicker to sort out than studs and chains

V Dosc has never struck me as a particularly awkward one as it goes. I can't remember exactly what the system is that I had in mind, one of the American ones, Meyer Milo perhaps, or the EAW one. Its one of those with pins and curved plates with various holes for different angles, and just for fun it strongly tempts people (local crew especially) to stick their fingers between the boxes in a really quite inadvisable kind of a way.

 

You must, as a rigger, prefer putting the points in for a line array, in the bigger gigs? Hate marking out transformer bar pickups, triangulations, and inch perfect measurments. Grrr

Not really, inch perfect points were never any more necessary with point source than with line array in my experience, and its worth bearing in mind that readily available (and affordable) plumb lasers haven't been around that long. 'Inch perfect' points were a pretty theoretical concept before they came along. :)

 

For what its worth, putting groups of points in accurate positions is generally a lot easier in bigger venues than smaller ones, subject sometimes to bridles being adjustable only in steps of a single STAC chain link.

 

Actually, as far a pickiness with the points is concerned, the arrival of V Dosc heralded a whole new era of picky noise techs. The French system techs that seemed to arrive with every system back then seemed to regard their laptops as a source of divine commandments rather than a tool of the trade. Its only fairly recently that the systems techs touring line arrays have typically become more pragmatic. I can't remember the last time I saw a large line array with a laser pointer stuck on its flying frame, but I remember well how often system techs in the early days of V Dosc would kick up a fuss because one dot on the back wall of the arena (100m or more away from the downstage edge) was a foot further offstage than the other.

 

Something I really don't like about certain line array systems, speaking as a rigger, is to see a big array hanging on one of its two motors getting bumped up and down repeatedly and swung about all over the place. Its a common sight with systems that travel vertically in sections (such as VDosc on dollies in groups of 4 boxes or so) as opposed to systems that 'snake' up off the floor (like VDosc that travels on individual wheelboards) - and inevitable really as the bottom of the stack so far needs to be horizontal (ish) to mate with the top of the next section. When the curve is curvy, this invariably seems to involve some pretty scary looking transient loads on the whole rigging system as the thing gets bounced about, and an unnerving amount of deflection in roof beams, particularly when experienced through the soles of the feet.

 

I just dangle the stuff, and try and point it in the right direction.

A noble ambition. :)

 

Sean

x

[ceecrb1]

Yeah this dangling at weird angles when rigging arrays is one thing our system does not do...

Tecno Star Audio (TSA) AX-210

 

As you lower it onto its lowest section everything "concertina" together (or appart as you raise it).

Yes its a nasty finger trap but it does mean when you need to rig, you hang the first 4, then raise them, lower them onto the next group (all with angles pre-set) and it all compresses together.. add the hardware to join it all... and raise again.

Job done.

 

I'd not seen it before till I got here to spain but it seems ok.

I've not really had the chance to properly play with it (as we haven't had a job needing it in a good few months)

 

Anyone got any experience with it? How'd u find it?

 

<edited for spelling of consertina, consatina, concartina>