Guest joewhite903 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Hi all I started building my own smoke chiller back in March, It is nothing basic like most the ones u see most making, It consists off a picnic chiller box, water cooling Radiator, Pond Pump, Drainedge Pipe, and lots off ice, Which Chills down to -1C. But now im looking to continue using the main chilling part but using CO2 to cool the water block, So no more ice.I've purchased a two stage CO2 Regualtor but im wondering if anybody has had any past experience working with CO2 as to make the whole unit safe as posible. Im planing on using the unit along with my modded Martin Junior 700. need the whole thing working by 27th october, hope Some body can help Ta Joe P.S. Photos are on http://www.bebo.com/PhotoAlbum.jsp?MemberI...umId=5714387157 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 STudy carefully about CO2 and cooling! You dont want to get too cold! Look where the gas flow goes cold. try to be satisfied with the kit you have that works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joewhite903 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 My big problem is the smoke doesnt get chilled enough and needs too be chilled a hell off a lot more, it rises to quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wuddy Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Please be careful with CO2, I think it is 5% by volume that can be fatal. I personally know of two experiences of the effects of CO2. I worked with a theatre group who hired a CO2 chiller for a low smoke effect, the chiller exhausted the CO2 with the low level smoke. On stage were five dummy rocks surronded by swirling low smoke, behind the rocks hid five dancers, they had to remain there whilst the principal sang a solo, when it came time for the dancers to appear one of them colapsed, overcome with the CO2. A good acquaintance told me of an occassion when proper dry ice was used for effect, being heavier than air it flowed down into the orchestra pit and contributed to one of the wind section having a heart attack (non fatal, as para-medics were present) the orchestra member was aneamic, which was a contributiry factor, and the lack of oxygen brought on the attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joewhite903 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Crap didnt realise how little CO2 you need in the air to cause a colapse. The unit is the be used for a halloween themed band night and late night disco on the 27th and being used along with (2 fire Cracker 1.5k Strobes, 4 20w Baby strobes, 2 400w UV Cannons, 80mw Green Laser, 2 Inteligent flat scans, 2 Colour/gobo blasters, 16 par56, 8 par36 Leds, 4 par36, 2 8Way stage blinders, 2 follow spots) think thats all im using Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timtheenchanteruk Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 what fluid are you using in the fogger? You could try one of the heavier ones, the one from Antarie for use in their ice stays about 4feet from the floor without chilling, and dissipates before it rises much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmills Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Just something to try with your ordinary ice unit...Add salt! This will get you down to about -12 or so (Be careful with the runoff, brine is as corrosive as hell. Or do what I did for a Macbeth a few years ago and get a second hand kitchen freezer, cut a couple of holes in the door and stack it full of iron pipe (to store the cold), I think I used the entire collection of short steeldeck legs in the end. You would want to add a fan to pull the smoke out, and to use a fairly short hang time fluid, but it does work and is a deal safer then messing with high pressure gas. Make insulated plugs for the holes for when it is not in use, and let it chill down (on max) for a day before trying it. Used freezers can normally be obtained from the council dump. Regards, Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joewhite903 Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 hi ther im using standerd fog fluied at the moment, but I will try an get some off the low hang time, low fog fluied from work, as for putting salt inside tried that but it clogs up the pump. Im really wanting to go for using co2 to chill the unit as ive forked out and got the specific co2 reg valve, I havent a problem workin with the high pressurse as the Regulator drops it down to a max off only 7 Bar anyway, im guessing it may be wise for me to purchase a co2 cutoff alarm on a remote valve so iff the co2 reaches dangerous levels it switches the gas off untill safe, Thanks joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Presumably you had a design in mind before you bought the regulator, didn't you? The only obvious way I can think of creating such a system is to use the cooling effect of evaporating liquid CO2 in which case the regulator you have purchased is of no use. The use of liquid CO2 leads to significant risk of explosion, cryogenic burns and suffocation which require a fair amount of knowledge and experiance to manage satisfactorily. Sorry to sound blunt but I would seriously consider going with an easier option or speaking to an expert. Gas Safety UK certainly know their stuff and are a friendly bunch who will be able to discuss any legal as well as engineering problems you have, however don't expect it to be anywhere near as cheap as cannibalising an old freezer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wuddy Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 I havent a problem workin with the high pressurse as the Regulator drops it down to a max off only 7 Bar anyway, 7 is a small number and 7 Bar may sound like a low pressure but in 'old money' that's 105psi which ain't low, a pressure of 8 Bar (120psi) on direct contact can penetrate the skin and airate the blood, thats fatal. Taking the above into account and that the suffocation point has been raised on a couple of posts I think you are playing a dangerous game building you own CO2 chiller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joewhite903 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Woo got my CO2 Tank today, Just gotta build the expansion chamber and regulator stand an I think im sorted, New smoke machine (martin Junior 700) works a treat . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmills Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Woo got my CO2 Tank today, Just gotta build the expansion chamber and regulator stand an I think im sorted, New smoke machine (martin Junior 700) works a treat . Except that you want LIQUID co2 at the nozzle (so the latent heat of vaporisation cools the smoke (~230KJ/Kg)), and that means running with NO regulator and with a dip tube cylinder (Which means full cylinder pressure in the lines and valves (~850PSI @ 21 C)), doing it with the gas will require an excessive volume of gas as only the gas expansion will be providing the cooling (with the latent heat of vaporisation cooling the cylinder for all the good that does). The other problem with running liquid CO2 in the lines is that it will convert to gas at any point the pressure drops which will cool that point, if this is at a valve or the like you can end up with a stuck (frozen) valve which is bad. Doing this right is serious engineering and requires a reasonable knowledge of thermodynamics, material behaviour under cryogenic conditions, physiological effects, high pressure liquid handling.... If you turned up with a home made CO2 smoke chiller at my space, I would take a lot of convincing before it came off the truck. Just a warning that this is not as trivial as it appears, and that butchering a freezer is IMHO the far easier, safer, and cheaper option. Regards, Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARWYN Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 HI WHAT SEEMS TO WORK IS GET A LENGTH OF NORMAL HOSE PIPE AND A TUMBLE DRYER SILVER EXTRACTOR HOSE, TAPE THE HOSE PIPE TO THE INSIDE OF THE SILVER HOSE,CONECT THE HOSE PIPE TO A CO2 BOTTLE AND PUT THE END OF THE SILVER TUMBLE DRYER PIPE TO THE END OF THE SILVER HOSE, PUT THE CO2 ON, NOT FULL FLOW AND THEN START TO PUMP THE SMOKE THROUGH THE SILVER PIPE AND THEN THE SMOKE SHOULD STAY LOW TO THE FLOOR FOR YOU ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 You are a troll and I claim my £5, if you're not I do apologise and can heartily recommend the current exhibition in the Tate Moderns turbine hall. Either way its a silly idea, CO2 can suffocate people, connecting things to high pressure containers can cause lethal explosions and liquid CO2 can cause serious burns and frostbite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joewhite903 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 HI WHAT SEEMS TO WORK IS GET A LENGTH OF NORMAL HOSE PIPE AND A TUMBLE DRYER SILVER EXTRACTOR HOSE, TAPE THE HOSE PIPE TO THE INSIDE OF THE SILVER HOSE,CONECT THE HOSE PIPE TO A CO2 BOTTLE AND PUT THE END OF THE SILVER TUMBLE DRYER PIPE TO THE END OF THE SILVER HOSE, PUT THE CO2 ON, NOT FULL FLOW AND THEN START TO PUMP THE SMOKE THROUGH THE SILVER PIPE AND THEN THE SMOKE SHOULD STAY LOW TO THE FLOOR FOR YOU <_< thanks mite try that as a last resort if my idea doesent work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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