Small LX desk

[Suzette]

Just a quick topic - as I have already done quite a bit of research, wiki searching, phoning suppliers, checking out manufacturers websites etc. (Just wanting to check I have covered all bases, so to speak!)

 

I need a small LX desk for a small studio space - requirements :

• 24 channel 2-scene preset mode for the students use (they are all acting students, NOT technical at all) - can cope with 2-scenes though!
  
• Memory stack/cue-stack or similar with a GO button & timed fades - for when I need to LX design a show in the studio and want to record memories with times and then press a Go button during the show.
  
• Budget about £800/£1000
  

I've had a demo on a Smartfade - sorry but didn't like the fact that all 24 channels of bump buttons keep flashing green at you while programming the cue-stack (yep I know you can record scenes as memories and recall them to the stack, but it just wasn't user-friendly in recording "proper cues"). I was trying to imagine spending a 3hr lighting session with the director with 24 constant flashing green lights - 'hell' is the word that springs to mind!

 

I am having a look at the Jester in a couple of days (with the Smartfade again in case it suddenly gets easier to operate and I can find a way to record without having all the lights flashing!)

 

Am thinking about trying to get a demo on a Strand 200 (not sure of price on that one at the moment)

 

These are the only 3 that I can find that may be in my price range, but able to do all what I need - have I missed any other desk?

 

FYI - Frog series is out of budget range, as is Strand Palette range. Would like Express but again - money! Strand 100 - no memories/cue-stack.

 

Any other suggestions of desks to look at - or is that my limit with my budget - other than second-hand of course, which I am already researching.

[Paul J Need]

A short reply: Hope this helps.

 

http://www.10outof10.co.uk/acatalog/10_out...s_40.html#a5164

 

http://www.10outof10.co.uk/acatalog/Control.html#a4532

[gareth]

Strand 200. (It doesn't have a 'go' button, but can do timed sequential crossfades ... get a demo, you'll see what I mean. Sorry, a very short answer has just been turned into a not-so-short one! :o)

[Neil Hampson]

In a school environment I think you're heading the right way with the jester. If you wnat the 12ch, two preset mode you would be better off with the 24/48 model as that doesn't need to be in a wide mode to get the 24 channels. The jester works in a similar way to the frog range (which of course will put some people off) but its easy to use with or without a monitor, and is cheap. I reckon you should be able to get the 24/48 and an LCD screen for your budget, I've never really had any problems with Zero88, and those that have needed help have always comended the after sales support.

Admitedly it doesn't do some of the fancier type fades like an Express, the Go stack is just that, no waits or follows. I've never used the effects interface but it can't be any worse than the expreesion/express.

 

Interesting to hear about the Smartfade, I was due to demo one before I bought a Jester (for a similar venue to the OP) but the demo desk was 'not available' It looked really good, but after trying to use the offline editor I was not overly impressed for a school desk. At the end of the day the school caretaker must be able to switch it on, find the 'venue hire' preset, and walk away...

 

Sorry for the long post, makes up for all the short ones :o

[Suzette]

Thanks for the replies - am demo'ing the Jester tomorrow morning. Trying to get demo on Strand 200 (although no GO button doesn't sound good)

Paul - does the showmaster have a Go button or is it 96 scenes programmed into faders (timed or otherwise). It seems to be aimed at the more high-end DJ - is that right?

[Firewood1]

Have you looked at the LSC Maxim range? They have desks from 12 channels upwards and are very reasonable priced also. Easily upgradable by adding their PatPad module if you ever wanted easy control of moving lights....just a thought.

[Frag_Me]

I'll give the Jester another thumbs up - it's a very good console IMO and easy to convert from it to the frog range as it's very similar software. A doddle to use basically and advanced stuff can be done if not as easily as the expensive desks but you get what you pay for on that front.

 

Only used the Standard Jester mind, not seen the ML yet.

[MrBoomal]

Your question seems almost designed for a Zero 88 Frog. Just about perfect for your requirements and right on budget. ( Actually you could find a secondhand 48 channel Alcora for about £240 . Although not as versatile as the Frog it would do everything stated in your question). And in my experience, in a student environment Zero 88 build quality is second to none.

[benweblight]

I'd go the for the Jester.

 

Fairly sure there is no 'GO' button on the showmaster.

[Suzette]

Your question seems almost designed for a Zero 88 Frog. Just about perfect for your requirements and right on budget.

Where are you buying your Frog from - they retail between £1,600 and £1,900 in most places .. OK I would probably be able to get some sort of discount but even so... budget is £800 to £1000. (And its a school so £800 is the preferred target!!)

Will let you know how the Jester demo goes in the morning... thanks for all the suggestions.

[dave_m]

Regarding the build quality of the frog, I would disagree there about being good in a student environment. In my old school, they used to have a vanilla frog, and in the few months since I left it has suffered quite a lot of damage. So much so that the school are in the market for a new console. Also, generally I have found the Zero88 consoles fairly fiddly to use. Sometimes they can be stupid simple, but some of the ways of working can get quite confusing (like why do you have to have the x playback set at 10 to run a chase in a sub?) If possible, go for the Strand or the Smartfade. Much more logical ways of working and more industry-standard.

 

EDIT: Crikey - essay and a half!

[mac.calder]

LSC maXim. Simple, easy to use, beautiful desk. Or the Jester.

 

The build quality of the maXim is superb, I know of at least 10 maXims that are used for day-to-day running of shows and have seen another 20 or so in schools, and only 1 has had a problem, to the best of my knowledge - and that was with the floppy drive (show me a reliable floppy drive I say).

 

The good thing is that a desk like the Jester or the maXim can be taught in seconds.

 

BTW: if you normally only have 12 channels of dimming, but occasionally have 24, from memory, both the Jester and the maXim can be put in wide mode, and still have presets recorded onto faders. Then you can switch to preset/memory/whatever mode to bring them up - however you cannot control channels 13-24 whilst playing back presets.

 

Firewood: re the maXim upgrade to PatPad - that is only available for desks L and up (36/72) which may be outside of the OP's price range.

[CPlater1]

I would recommend the Jester 24/48 Have been using it since it came out, and it is great and easy to use.

[Just Some Bloke]

Smartfade: had a demo at PLASA and the more I found out about it the bigger my smile became until I eventually had to explain - it's almost the same as a Strand MX but brought up to date. I have to say I really liked the MX so Smarfade gets a vote from me.

Jester: a good desk for schools and easy to use.

LSC Maxim: very much designed for movers - so much so that you have to tell it that all your non-movers are of the fixture type 'Generic'. Handles moving heads very well indeed but not so good for a theatre-style cue stack and a bit of a waste of money if you're not using the majority of its channels as fixtures.

Strand 200: haven't used one but the 300 is OK so I guess the 200 might be too!

 

Hope you find one you like. :wacko:

[mac.calder]

LSC Maxim: very much designed for movers - so much so that you have to tell it that all your non-movers are of the fixture type 'Generic'. Handles moving heads very well indeed but not so good for a theatre-style cue stack and a bit of a waste of money if you're not using the majority of its channels as fixtures.

 

WTF? By default, all channels on a maXim are generic channels. The only time you need to repatch a fixture as a generic is when you have patched it as something else previously.

 

The maXim is the new incarnation of the Atom and Axiom consoles by LSC, which are very much generic desks. The PadPad is an addon to the maXim to allow it to control movers, so if anything, it's moving light control should be seen as the 'addon', not the norm.

 

I will admit, cuestack is a tad weak, although it is still usable, however I found when working with schools that scene masters were the better fit anyway, for the way their productions ran.

 

You may be thinking of the XTC, which is basically the PatPad plus some buttons, instead of the traditional two scene preset type layout of the maXim, which is designed specifically for moving lights.

 

(note: I don't work for LSC, however I do love the stuff they make. They are basically the Zerro88 of Australia, and as such, hold a special place in my heart ;-))