Mummy Lucy Posted March 26, 2004 Author Share Posted March 26, 2004 Ok, further update on my future career! Bristol Old Vic - RejectedRoyal Welsh College - RejectedRose Bruford - Accepted on to the Stage Management course!!!Trinity College, Carmarthen - Accepted but don't like the placeArts institute @ Bournemouth - Accepted but don't like the courseNorthbrook College - Still got to go for an interview So it looks like I'm off to Rose Bru, I'm dead chuffed with myself that I got offered a place! It's not bad getting 3 out of 5 offers so far either, so unless Northbrook wows me with its facilities and course, then Sidcup here I come. See peeps, it does work out alright in the end B-) LuceXxX PS: Sorry, I'll calm down and take the appropriate adult action require din this situation. I'm off to the pub.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Well done Lucy! See you in September...and welcome to the circles of unknowing. What are these circles I hear you hark? Wait until you get to Bruford, then you'll know all about them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewGrant Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 I was accepted to Rose Bruford (Lighting Desgin) the other day, really pleased! Was a real confidance booster because the interviewer was really intimidating. Just need to wait for Bristol Old Vic's decision before I make my final decision! Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Need Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 I have covered this subject before here on previously in the ABTT green rooms. NO, YOU DO NOT NEED A DEGREE TO WORK IN THEATRE LIGHTING! One of the problems with a modern degree, is that it has been devalued by the vast quantity of people now sitting for them. And some silly degrees also such as a degree in daytime television. OK I exagerate but you know what I mean.... no wonder Ox/bridge are now thinking about asking all applicants to sit an entry exam as to choose from the vast number of students with 10 x A* passes. Why oh why you have to spend 3 flamin years doing a degree in lighting when you would learn twice as much on the job! End of rant!!!! :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Why oh why you have to spend 3 flamin years doing a degree in lighting when you would learn twice as much on the job! A few reasons - If these courses didn't exist, 500 people (at a guess) might go straight into the industry every year. Where would they get jobs? I suspect a great many would struggle to find employment with no qualifications. How many trainee positions are there to go round? I see a degree as a stepping stone, not a 'be all and end all' in everything there is to know about lighting. I can't speak for other institutions, but my degree is effectively three years of "learning on the job". There's no hand-holding, it's all pretty much go, do, learn. We work on a wider range of productions and with a wider range of equipment than many people might encounter in the big wide world. In the last term I've worked on theatrical, rock & roll, architectural, musical and corporate projects. In the last year I've learnt to use 10 different lighting desks as well as generic and automated lanterns from a wide variety of manufacturers. I've been working in several venues across London, on top of our facilities on site. How many freelancers get to experience such a broad range of jobs and equipment in the early stages of their careers? This is all in a safe environment, where I'm not going to get the sack for making mistakes. Yes there's pressure to make it all happen and get things done, just as in the real world, but there's always the freedom to experiment and learn by your mistakes. Of course there is a little bit of lecturing, (it would just be too good otherwise :o ) but thats fairly minimal and useful. Most people are out there working in the real world as well, which is supported and encouraged. There's also the small issue of fun. I expect I'll be working until I'm 100 - they'll have replaced any weak bones with Titanium rods and sorted out any other substandard components - I've got plenty of time to work my arse off, I might as well have a few years of drunken misbehaviour while I still can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmonk Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Seconding all Rob jus posted, as he said many of us at Rose Bruford already have strong freelance careers, doing a wide range of roles in a wide range of venues, Rose Bruford should be seen more as a resource or tool, it doesnt jus hand you the entire knowledge of lighting to you on a plate - it says, " Go out! "" Find out! "" Learn! "" Work it out! "" What do you think? " You get what you want out of these kinds of training, if you cant be bothered to learn then you wont, if you use it for all its worth then there are so many opertunities available... ( For BranVan39 )Was it Mr Nick who interviewed you by any chance?Good luck all the best - will see you in september! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillian Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 hey guys im with james on this one!im a 3rd year student at RSAMD on the TPA course and its a great place to go the people and you learn loads! plus glasgows a wicked city to study in!gillianx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Need Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 A few reasons - If these courses didn't exist, 500 people (at a guess) might go straight into the industry every year. Where would they get jobs?Of course you are correct! The way is it now, 2,500 graduates from all the drama schools leave at the same time each year all trying to find a job :o I am not saying courses are of no use - on the contrary, some of the courses such as RSAMD, LAMDA, RADA, GSMD, Central etc, and some of the people coming out of Rose Bruford are great, but do not forget the reason why all course had to go over to a degree course. It was simply because obtaining a grant for a dipolma course in a subject such as stage management was becoming increasingly difficult. Also, The situation is not the same in UK theatre as it was 10 years ago. The number of Rep. theatres has declined - not so many producing houses For Example Windsor Theatre Royal used to produce many many of its own shows, these days so many have become receiving houses. So, not so many stage management jobs around. Why then are the colleges producing so many stage management students? FACT: Simply economics> Without the the number of students paying their fees to these colleges the colleges would shut up shop overnight! I can only go by my old 'school' RADA. The SM course was two years with a termly intake of 6 students, ( I think LAMDA, Bristol and Central ran similar course lengths) There was a natural progression on the training, from stage crew, props, workshops, flying. then on to ASM, DSM, SM etc. And because the Acting course also was extremely good, with fewer students, it meant 12 shows per term.... so REAL weekly rep type training. I imagine now most drama schools put on a maximum os 4-5 shows per term due to the degree part of the course?!?!?!? So, every term 6 students would complete their course not 30+ per year all at the same time as it is now. Besides, the standards of the higher education system has been devalued due to more and more people going on to degree level. In times gone past, someone with a degree was almost certain to get a better job than someone who did not. Now: So many people have them - they are simply not worth as much. Moreover, as a lighting design student at RADA in the 80's I was lucky enough to have lit 14 productions in 4 terms. Now a student on the 'same' course will be lucky to light 5 shows in 3 years!!!! That's progress eh? :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 A few reasons - If these courses didn't exist, 500 people (at a guess) might go straight into the industry every year. Where would they get jobs?Of course you are correct! The way is it now, 2,500 graduates from all the drama schools leave at the same time each year all trying to find a job :o The technical entertainment business will only support a certain number of 'new entrants' into the business each year, regardless of whether these entrants are graduates or not. Some people who want to get into the industry will succeed, some won't and will end up going off to do something else (and probably having a more 'normal' life as a result!). One factor which needs to be considered by people who are looking for a 'foot in the door' in our business is, do you want to try to get into the business at the age of 18, possibly not succeed, and have to rethink your career choice? Or do you want to take the chance that you might go through that exact same process three years later, the only difference now being that you're several thousand pounds in debt to the government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 The only suggestion I can make is this: If you've been offered a place at a particular drama school, be it to do with LX, Stage Management etc, see if you can defer your place for a year. Then during that year, do your level best to get into your local theatre as a casual (or whatever) and see how the year goes. If your really lucky (and this is the most important bit) then you might find yourself in a situation after a year to be able to carry on working in the industry, learning on the job, making lots of money and also meeting the people on the touring circuit etc. And if you've not had a succesful year (which could happen, fact of life I suppose) then you can sleep easy knowing you've got a place on a 3yr course to fall back onto. I've been working for about 18 months now as a Pro, and have been extremely lucky to be in a good position now (well I hope so anyway) that I feel I don't need to go to Uni. All I'm saying is, give it some thought and remember, no matter how much your school/college might tell you, Uni is not always the first or best option for some of us. Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben P Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 Sticking with Paul on this one. As a chief at a venue I get letters all the time asking how to get in to theatre where to go and saying I am going to do a degree and then look for work. Well I write back and tell them not to bother with the degree, as (ok in my view) does not stand you apart from others. How much of the industry is done by word of mouth? How much does it rely on doing a good job for someone? Its hard way to do it, but if you are good enough and learn you will a get a) better all round knowledge of theatre and b) also meet a lot of touring people who will then notice your knowledge and take numbers etc... Only way to prove this is a bit of shameless boasting (sorry - but from it you will see my lack of degree was not a hindrance...) Age 18 leave school with a good knowledge.Age 18 start to casual for local theatre (touring venue) and start to learn on the job. Had out numbers to people who ask for itAge 19 get work from people who I met at theatreAge 20 Re light a major national tour for the first time (west end size show)Age 21 Re Light another major national tour for the same companyAge 22 Re light a massive number 1 tour (and proddy LX it)Age 23 Become chief LX at a major touring house. Now Ok some might say that I had the breaks, etc... but I started casual work when I really did not have that much knowledge.... but not have a degree has not stopped me from progressing. One of the really annoying things that I have with shows that come through my venue, is arguments with (as it turns out drama students) Some I admit are excellent, but some come through and don't understand changing lighting (in my case) to fit the venue. Yes in an ideal world I would like to have this that and the other 30 Source4's all at the right angle but hey I am sorry you have to put up with Sil 30's and I know there bad but that's it. But do they understand that. NO!!! they spend most of the time arguing that they can't light it like that and it has to be the proper lanterns (and will usually follow with.... "when I was at college we had.....") :o Ok I am sorry to tarnish all students with the same brush, but it is becoming more and more common. Learn on the job - learn how to do it, but more importantly learn how NOT to do it. There are some very very good technicians out there, most of whom you will find did it the hard way and are the better for it. OK Rant over - sorry to anyone I have caused offence to. I just annoys me that people think the only way to succeed in tech theatre is with a degree! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 I just annoys me that people think the only way to succeed in tech theatre is with a degree! I don't think anybody has suggested that you have to have a degree - The answer to the original question is definitely no, but there are pro's and cons to both sides. To pose another question, we all know that degrees are being devalued. Do people think that those without degrees are liable to suffer in the future when everyone else will have one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 but some come through and don't understand changing lighting (in my case) to fit the venue. Yes in an ideal world I would like to have this that and the other 30 Source4's all at the right angle but hey I am sorry you have to put up with Sil 30's and I know there bad but that's it. But do they understand that. NO!!! they spend most of the time arguing that they can't light it like that and it has to be the proper lanterns (and will usually follow with.... "when I was at college we had.....") :o I know what you mean here Ben. I personally feel that the people with the right attitude, who have basically seen there degree as a step forward, and not a god given right to every bit of knowledge and experience in the world, are the people who will deal with these sorts of problems, and adapt. Basically, it's all about having the right attitude :o Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Need Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 Sticking with Paul on this one. As a chief at a venue I get letters all the time asking how to get in to theatre where to go and saying I am going to do a degree and then look for work. Well I write back and tell them not to bother with the degree, as (ok in my view) does not stand you apart from others.<NODS AT BEN> Agree with you all the way. One needs a degree become a doctor, a mathematician, an engineer, not a stage manager, a lighting designer or production manager. The fact I went to RADA did not help my job prospects whatsoever - the fact I went back to join the teaching staff stood me in better stead for future career moves. Oh and before I forget - I have been a lighting designer for 21 years now and I am still learning......... When you stop learning you're dead! :o Therefore a quick word of advice to all students about to start a course or just finishing. do not rely on your degree, its only the start of a very long learning curve :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mummy Lucy Posted March 29, 2004 Author Share Posted March 29, 2004 Woah! I can see I've started a bit of a debate here! As Stu said, I don't want to have to spend 3 years at uni if I don't need to. And I intend on deferring my place at Rose Bruford for a year, to try and get work in local theatres and get some hands on experience behind me. If the gap year works out really well, I start earning some decent money and can see a future through working casually, then I will definitely blow uni out of the window. Basically I am trying to get into the industry any way I can, if it means slogging it out at uni for 3 years so that when I turn up to a job interview I'm not the only one without a degree, then I'll do it. You say uni isn't neccessary, but if you were interviewing me for a job and all I had were some crappy A levels and a BTEC in Technical theatre, would you seriously employ me? It used to be that everyone had to have 3 A levels at C or above for a half decent job anywhere, now you need a degree for those same jobs. I'm prepared to do what it takes, now there's commitment for ya! :D "A girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do" to get a stage management job ;) I'm still not sure which is the right way for me, but hey I'll learn sooner or later, right? LuceXxX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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