Lighting upgrade at work (college)

[Trunker]

Hi,

 

We are having an upgrade at College. The system we are getting consists of 72 dimmers (+24 we already have), 8 Moving heads (+2 we already have), 4 ultra bright Par 64 LED and we also have 2 scroller already in stock.

 

We have a Fat Frog board at the moment (I know this board won't handle as this comftably), would it be worth while up-grading the board for a Frog 2 been as we have got the money to do it?

 

Anybody have any suggestions? Or any opinions on the Frog 2 or this upgrade?

 

Cheers

[Brian B]

Hi there,

 

we have a similar situation at a school we are working at over the summer.

 

we assessed that they also have a fat frog and for the price of a frog 2 close to 5k

 

it would be much wiser to invest in other areas in this case 20 par can scrollers and power supplies for there FOH rig saving them valuable gelling up time and they need not work at height as this was in there permanent rig of the colour wash.

 

you need to see that although a frog 2 with touch screen capability's is very cool !

the money could go else were to make the system much better.

 

however with all this in mind if you cannot think of anything else possibly to get a new desk is always nice

 

to sum up personally I would go for something else to add to the rig and not to upgrade a lighting desk for the simple reason that you had the money! hope this helps

 

Brian

[Trunker]

We have bugeted for a new PA system 30/40 new generic lanterns raked seating, new bars, lite-deck, gels accessories etc. and all mentioned above. Cannot really think of anything else to buy and the list has to be in by Wednesday. I want the board really to train 2nd year diploma students on a top end board and because we will then have a spare lighting board. The college does a lot of tours, so has to take the Fat Frog out atm if we need movers on the tour. Also I don't think the Fat Frog will cope with as many channels as we are having put in as mentioned above

[tokm]

I want the board really to train 2nd year diploma students on a top end board and because we will then have a spare lighting board.

Then perhaps you should look at something a little more 'top end'.. I'm sure I'll get plenty of opposition to this, but frogs aren't anywhere near 'top end' IMO, but their not supposed to be, so its fine. The frog 2 claims to be, but I've not really used one and prefer something more common (in their respective markets) i.e. strand or hog for theatre & Avo & (again) hogs, for more rock and roll orientated shows. A suggestion could be made for getting a GrandMA console (on of the smaller frames perhaps), but at this point in time, I've seen them reserved for only the top/elite productions (west end/arena touring etc), so probably not worth having one to learn on just yet.

 

Yes the frog is apparently a 'good board to learn on' in terms of learning the basics of lighting operation, but at the same time its not. Better (if you have the money) to get a board that's used heavily in the industry. E.g. one of the boards I mentioned previously. A local college bought an Avo Sapphire 2000, 2 and a bit years ago.. not particularly money loaded place, but it was a good choice for them. Why....? Because its got lots of faders/handles for easy channel access & its easy to do basic programming on. Useful for students learning or those who aren't lighting orientated. But, at the same time, it gives plenty of room for the more advanced students to home their skills and learn how to use an industry standard desk in an environment where time isn't so much of an issue.

 

'What desk to get' are in plentiful supply on here, so if you want to hear the pros and cons of everything remotely decent, just search. But as a starting point, I'd suggest you try the suggestions I've made.

 

Also I don't think the Fat Frog will cope with as many channels as we are having put in as mentioned above

Just as a point to note, no it won't cope with the number of dimmers. 48's its total.

 

Tom

[Pete]

Your right the fat frog wont cope with that many dimmer channels,so you do need to look at a new board.

Ive just checked the list price on a Frog 2 which is £7k (ish).

If I had that much to spend,I think Id be looking at either, a Grand MA (Both Micro and Pico come in at a lower list price than the frog) or a Vista (S3 control surface with Laptop and 2000 DMX Channel dongle comes in under list).

 

I like Zero 88 boards,but wouldnt it be good to give the students experience of another manufacturers console?

[Brian B]

The frog 2 is still within the frog family

 

so if you are planning to use it to train people up the frog you have already got would do the trick as the frog 2 uses the same principles and can be picked up in minutes when you already know the other frog.

 

for the money I would have to say to get another desk possibly a pearl 2008 at only 5k rather than a frog 2

 

Brian

 

I would also have to add that I have only ever been to one or two locations with a frog board (sorry any zero88 staff on line not meaning to be offencive)

 

therefore the idea of having a different board such as a pearl, grand ma , strand would probably be more use to your students.

 

however we do have frogs in our hire department and they are probably the only desk our school clients hire from us so they are a great easy to use desk!

 

Brian

[Trunker]

Thanks for your replys and answers. I should have known this was coming. I don't really want a Strand board atm because I have heard that the new boards are going through a rough patch. I cannot think of a venue in 30 mile radius of the college which uses a Pearl (which is a rock 'n' roll desk?) we need a more theatre orientated board. What about an ETC board? Only used an Expression 48/96, but seem dead easy to use.

 

The reason with sticking with zero88 was that the college has exellent links with 3 nearby theatres that all use zero88 desks. Our students have oppertunity to go there and work as part of their trainning on the course.

 

Any help on ETC would be appreciated anyhow.

[PDD]

What about an ETC board?

Any help on ETC would be appreciated anyhow.

Congo Junior?

[Brian B]

just invested in some chamsys desks

 

check it out

 

http://www.chamsys.co.uk/default.asp?p=start.asp

 

rearly good desk and just in your price range

 

brian

[tom_the_LD]

What about an ETC board? Only used an Expression 48/96, but seem dead easy to use.

 

Do you mean an Express 48/96?? Looking on ETC, all I can see is an Expression 3 - not an Expression 48/96, although that could be just me :P

 

I use an Express 48/96 quite a bit and find it fantastic for generics and easy to use, but I have been told (by quite a few on here!) and others who have used it, that it does not do movers very well!!

 

2p in the box ;)

[tokm]

I don't really want a Strand board ATM because I have heard that the new boards are going through a rough patch.

Indeed, they are having some issues last I heard, but, you should still look at a 500 series. 520I being the main recommendation. They're used in god knows how many venues across the UK, on numerous tours & widely in the west end. IMO, you can't get more industry standard than that.

 

ETC congo gets my vote too, its a 'Learning on' desk, but with all the features and capabilities to do most of the things the boards on the next level up will do!

 

I cannot think of a venue in 30 mile radius of the college which uses a Pearl (which is a rock 'n' roll desk?)

Cardiff and Bristol aren't too far from you.. both have a few venue's with Pearls! I guess large venue's with in house production don't number in the many round your neck of the woods!

 

But yes, I really would suggest you look at other desks that are a little more common.

 

Just my thoughts ;)

 

Tom

[aaronw]

How about the Zero 88 Leap Frog 96. It has the advantage of being similar to your Fat Frog (Familiar ergonomic hardware platform) but with a complete upgrade to the software platform. So that you can control up to 200 intelligent lights and 96 generic dimming channels and with much more such as three operating modes; a simple non tracking mode for beginners, an advanced partial mode and a new professional mode which offers parameter level programming and full tracking with split times.

 

Aaronw

[Trunker]

What about an ETC board? Only used an Expression 48/96, but seem dead easy to use.

 

Do you mean an Express 48/96?? Looking on ETC, all I can see is an Expression 3 - not an Expression 48/96, although that could be just me :P

 

I use an Express 48/96 quite a bit and find it fantastic for generics and easy to use, but I have been told (by quite a few on here!) and others who have used it, that it does not do movers very well!!

 

2p in the box ;)

 

 

Yeah, sorry the Express 48/96. I really like the desk for generics, but it don't do movers at all well.

 

I don't really want a Strand board ATM because I have heard that the new boards are going through a rough patch.

Indeed, they are having some issues last I heard, but, you should still look at a 500 series. 520I being the main recommendation. They're used in god knows how many venues across the UK, on numerous tours & widely in the west end. IMO, you can't get more industry standard than that.

 

ETC congo gets my vote too, its a 'Learning on' desk, but with all the features and capabilities to do most of the things the boards on the next level up will do!

 

I cannot think of a venue in 30 mile radius of the college which uses a Pearl (which is a rock 'n' roll desk?)

Cardiff and Bristol aren't too far from you.. both have a few venue's with Pearls! I guess large venue's with in house production don't number in the many round your neck of the woods!

 

But yes, I really would suggest you look at other desks that are a little more common.

 

Just my thoughts :)

 

Tom

 

Just wondering what venues in cardiff uses a Pearl? St Davids Hall and The Millenium Centre uses Strand 500 series (last time I looked).

 

 

 

 

I thought Strand have stopped making the 500 series now, or can you still get left over stock?

 

How about the Zero 88 Leap Frog 96. It has the advantage of being similar to your Fat Frog (Familiar ergonomic hardware platform) but with a complete upgrade to the in the software platform. So that you can control up to 200 intelligent lights and 96 generic dimming channels and with much more such as three operating modes; a simple non tracking mode for beginners, an advanced partial mode and a new professional mode which offers parameter level programming and full tracking with split times.

 

Aaronw

 

To buy a leap frog, we might as well get the Frog 2 and not have to worry about an upgrade for more than a decade, as we will never fill 2048 Channels, but may exceed 512 in the next few years.

[Flyingwysiwyg]

A suggestion could be made for getting a GrandMA console (on of the smaller frames perhaps), but at this point in time, I've seen them reserved for only the top/elite productions (west end/arena touring etc), so probably not worth having one to learn on just yet.

 

I would agree with the first part of the above statement. They are excellent desks and solidly reliable with pretty much all the functionality you could ever want. I have been using them quite regularly now on a number of shows (both small and large).

 

I wouldn't agree that they are reserved for the top / elite productions though. I have used the smaller MA (The light, Ultra Light & Micro) on a number of small events. The smallest desk is quite competitively priced.

 

http://www.malighting.com/

 

IMHO,

 

F - Wyg

[dave singleton]

The New Leapfrog 96 would be ideal for your needs.

 

They are very good desks. We currently have one set up with Zero 88's Light Converse Vis software in our demo room. They would do everything you are after, allow good cue stack use etc, but then also allow for complete buskability if doing rock gigs etc.