Patt Numbers ~ Records = Confusion

[Dj Dunc]

Hi all. Whats the difference between at patt 743 and a 223 ( or was it 233) as we found that the two 743's we had are actually t'other variant. This came about as I know the 743s are designed for 1k but are the 223's? as we are running 500w in them at the minute but we would love to have the fulll 1k.

 

many thanks

 

duncan

[Chris_H]

Anyone feel free to correct me but a quick scan of the strand archive says that a patt 223 has a p28 lamp base and the patt 743 has a GX9.5 lamp base, both capable of upto 1k max.

 

HTH Chris

[Dj Dunc]

Perfect. What caused the difference in lamp base though? Are the patts similar in every other way?

[Suzette]

I concur with Chris H - I have a P223 with 1kw lamp. P28 base and several P743 with 1kw, GX9.5 bases

[Chris_H]

A long shot but the difference between the T6 and T9 lamps being that the T6 lamps were purely halogen and the T9's were the 'new' tungsten halogen?

[Neil Hampson]

Ark Light (Out of the Arc) if they still exist, used to to do a conversion kit that was fairly cheap as far as I remebber the the two lamp bases line up fairly well so you dont need much of a spacer to replace the P28 with a Gx9.5. even so a Gx lampbase and a couple of shims would make all of the lanterns the same. the light output from a T19 is much better than a T6 as the colour temp is that little bit higher. The only thing you won't be able to replace of course is the Strand electric ID tag at the back as it will no longer be a Patt.223

[paulears]

I still have the catalogue around the time when this series was released. The first digit '7', complimented/replaced quite a few '2's in the range at the time, and they all post 73, had Rank green paint, instead of the silver finish.

 

A Patt 743 is listed at £29 - which compared to today is amazingly expensive.

 

 

If anyone is interested - I'll scan the page.

 

The catalogue date and price list was 1971/2 (and the colour catalogue is dated 1973, ) - although they may have been available before this - 1971 is as far as I go back.

 

223 became 743

293 became 793

 

The other new Tungsten Halogen models making their first appearance were

763 and 764, side by side with the 263/264 - the narrow 774 (12 degree) - and the 1K disharge followspot, the 765. The beamlight, the 750 also appeared. At some point from 71 to 73, the beam light was re-designed from a corrugated, American looking design to a smooth bucket shape.

 

 

To make this all worse - I've just discovered that I was 13 when I first 'discovered' lighting, which is a bit worrying.

[Ynot]

If anyone is interested - I'll scan the page

Scan it and send it to Jon P at the archive.....

[dirkenstein]

My 743s are (except for minor hardware differences like the metal wing-nut style yoke clamps rather than knurled plastic knobs) mechanically identical to our venue's 223s.The only significant difference is the lamp base. The 743 appears to have been built by Strand using an 'in house' adaptor block for the 223 to move the gx9.5 lamp base to the correct burning position. This block appears to be nothing more complex than a solid aluminium billet (about 20x20x40mm, I'm happy to provide accurate measurements to anybody who cares) with 6 screw holes tapped at strategic locations, 2 on the bottom to accept screws through the original holes for the p28s base in the lamp carriage, 2 on one side to hold the ceramic connector block for the wires from the gx9.5 base (p28s was wired directly), and 2 on the top to hold the gx9.5 lamp. The design definitely dates from the heyday of British electrical engineering as all threads are BA (2BA, 4BA and 6BA by the looks).

 

By the way, did 223s continue to be made for some years after the 743 was introduced? Our venue's 223s look significantly newer and in better condition than my frankly kicked-around-the-barn 743s. Somebody might of course have shotblasted and powdercoated them, but their black finish looks original.

 

I think you can still get conversion kits from p28s to to gx9.5 for around £30 or so.

 

Was there a standard height for P28s bases? The l.c.l of T17/24 T13/22 and T14/20 lamps are all 55.6mm. that of T11 is 55mm. Given the similar l.c.l you wouldn't expect to need much of an adaptor, but the strand p28s bases I pulled out of some 264s are much longer than a T11 GX9.5 base. I'm coming up with a 47mm base height (53mm overall) from the p28s base to the underside of the bayonet flange the lamp is pressed against. I think it's actually meant to be 1 7/8". As the gx9.5 base is only 25mm high (I bet it's actually meant to be 1" in old money) this would explain the need for an adaptor.

 

How tight are the tolerances on filament height for good focus performance on fresnels? I assume being off by 5mm is very bad but how about 1mm, 0.5mm or .1mm? I would assume these tolerances are rather tighter on profiles?

[church]

Strand had both versions in their catalogue in 1972. The difference was only in the lamp the 223 was a tungsten lamp - the other was halogen. Many of the 223s were converted to take the halogen lamp. Both were rated for 1000W

[Don Allen]

It is a good idea to get the specs, not guess and there are several versions so several spec sheets.

Patt 223 has 1/10 beam angle of 18 degree spot to 70 degree flood.

Patt 743 has 1/10 beam angle of 18 degree spot to 70 degree flood, first version

Patt 743 has 1/10 beam angle of 15 degree spot to 80 degree flood, second version.

If you count the rings of the fresnel lens, the wider angle lens has one extra ring.

The wider angle 743 allows the lampbase carriage to travel closer to the lens for the wider beam spread.

 

The T9 halogen lamps were cheaper for a while than the P28S base T14/T20 halogen lamp which is why many conversions were done, however cost is similar these days.

 

Hope this helps.

Don

[dirkenstein]

If you count the rings of the fresnel lens, the wider angle lens has one extra ring.

 

Do you know how many rings the narrow-angle version had?

Where can I find these spec sheets? The Strand archive does not appear to have them.

 

The T9 halogen lamps were cheaper for a while than the P28S base T14/T20 halogen lamp which is why many conversions were done, however cost is similar these days.

 

I'm seeing prices around UKP25 list for a T14/20 these days, and as low as UKP8 list for a T11. With a bit of hunting you might get the T14/20 for UKP18- and the T11 at UKP60 for 10...

 

Of course, it could be that the T11 is a very poor substitute for a T9...

 

I'm convinced the conversion is still worth it given that it pays for itself after around two blown lamps, if you really like the 223/743.

[Dj Dunc]

We just got the bulbs for the patt 223's yesterday. put em in and the difference is briliant. so now we have 2 1k washes finally. shame each lamp cost £26 from stage elecs or somewhere I think

[paulears]

Of interest?

 

Of interest?

[dirkenstein]

Of interest?

 

Very interesting, but this only seems to list the (later?) 15 to 80 degree model. How does one identify the earlier ones?

 

Did Strand make these in a number of optional finishes? I have definitely seen black, the green textured finish and possibly 'champagne' hammer finish (or was that somebody's idea of a repaint)?