The 'Engineer' title topic

[DSA]

in todays P.C (gone mad) world roadie= equipment relocation engineer

...which relates to the whole backbone of this petition, which I fully support.

 

David

[paulears]

I thought we had done the 'engineer' thing before, but I can't find the topic I wanted.

 

I personally respect those qualified engineers, in the true and traditional sense of the word - but equally, I don't see a problem with the term being used in 'our world' in a different sense. We have had recording and studio engineers for years - the BBC having what we'd all no doubt call 'real' engineers, and operators, also called engineers as detailed here.

 

While kind of seeing the point of the petition, the section that reads:

“Chartered Engineers” ImechE, RAeS can use the title Engineer. This will give Engineers the same professional status in our society as doctors, lawyers similar to Europe.

does seem a little odd. A real engineer who has the prefix "Chartered" in front, wants to prohibit use of the "engineer" term? So a chartered engineer is also an engineer, and anyone else isn't?

 

 

Don't think I am knocking those who have taken the time, effort and sweat of qualifying as a 'real' engineer - I'm not, but do feel we are playing with titles a bit. Most 'real' engineers, also have their society membership tagged on the end, and to me, as an outsider this is what I use to tell what kind they are.

 

If an organisation like the BBC can separate the two kinds, can't other people?

 

There are plenty of precedents - Television service engineers have been around for a fair time, and few are what you would call 'real' engineers - C&G, HND, BSc are the common qualifications.

 

No doubt to the qualified people, it is important, but I'm not so sure it is so critical that Government intervention is required.

[Ynot]

I thought we had done the 'engineer' thing before,

Think you're right.

But I can't find it at the mo, either.

 

Here's what the Cambridge Online Dictionary says (one of many that say much the same):

Engineer: NOUN

 

1 a person whose job is to design or build machines, engines or electrical equipment, or things such as roads, railways or bridges, using scientific principles:

a civil engineer

a mechanical/structural engineer

a software engineer

 

2 a person whose job is to repair or control machines, engines or electrical equipment:

a computer engineer

The engineer is coming to repair our phone tomorrow morning.

(That's excluding the US train driver of course!)

 

I used to be called (before the PC brigade got a hold of our job titles!) a Telecommunications Engineer in my day job, and I still like to think that I can still qualify myself under those terms, and can see a bearing under the descriptions above, especially as most of my work these days is PC based, supporting nationally used software....

 

Don't think I'm paid anywhere near as much as the lawyers or doctors, tho... :)

[gareth]

The argument on which that petition is based is badly flawed. Take me as an example - I have a B.Eng degree in Computer Systems Engineering, but I don't have chartered status - but I'm still an engineer, and I have my degree to prove it.

[DSA]

I think the petition creator probably takes it a little far by requesting chartered status before you can be called an "Engineer", however I fully agree with him that there seem to be an awful lot of people who are really "technicians", "repair men" or "cleaners" that seem to think they can make their job sound much more important (and attract a higher fee) if they add "Engineer" to their title. Common sense from the general public should prevail, but I do believe that a lot of people are overdoing their job titles at the moment for what are not "professional" jobs (in the standard hierarchy - i.e. have passed professional examinations).

 

Having just completed my 3rd year (of 4) in a a Civil Engineering degree I certainly do not call myself an Engineer yet. OK, so I haven't graduated yet - but even then I would consider very carefully my status without the CEng MICE/MIStructE, simply because those institutes require certain professional standards to be achieved before you are given membership.

 

So with a degree you may be an "Engineer" by definition - but whether you deserve "professional rights" without institute membership I am not at all sure. Note that for example the Institute of Structural Engineers pass rate at examination is only 37.5% - it is far from easy to be a member! (Well in fact its even harder when they mess up the wording of the exam script, but that's another story...)

 

I think the main point to make is that I don't believe this petition is having a go at "Sound Engineers" and the like - it is more about Window Cleaners etc. who seem to think that the word "Engineer" can be added to their job title.

 

I find this quite an interesting topic and highly debatable! Equally I don't really think that there is a "right answer". It will be interesting to see what sort of response is received from the government.

[Seano]

I think the main point to make is that I don't believe this petition is having a go at "Sound Engineers" and the like - it is more about Window Cleaners etc. who seem to think that the word "Engineer" can be added to their job title.

Its just 'job title inflation' (Fair bit written about it online.) Window Cleaners can call themselves 'engineers' if they want, personally I can think of much more important things to get worked up about.

 

I find this quite an interesting topic and highly debatable! <snip> It will be interesting to see what sort of response is received from the government.

Debated it at length with FW on rats - lost interest in a big way after that, permanently it would seem. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for any response to that petition.

 

Back on the 'roadie' thing - context counts. Some people are more touchy about their 'job title' than others, and I think we're all more inclined to be touchy if its coming from someone who should know better. Personally, I don't like 'technician' - too stuffy and somewhat pretentious. Simple 'crew' will do for me.

 

ps:

I'm a B.Eng (hons) too. Electronics in my case. I definitely don't consider myself an 'engineer', though I do contribute to a bit of engineering now and again. :)

[dbuckley]

_techie is a word that varies in context. There are people I allow to call me a _techie, and I am quite falttered by it, as to come from this type of person it is indeed a complement.

 

On the other hand, most engineering generally is a taught discipline, whereas most stagey related "engineering" is actually craftsmanship, in the old sense of the word, apprentice, journeyman, craftsman.

[Stuart Basson]

“Chartered Engineers” ImechE, RAeS can use the title Engineer. This will give Engineers the same professional status in our society as doctors, lawyers similar to Europe.

 

I am bound to wonder which of these august bodies the likes of Telford, Brunel and Stephenson joined before they built roads, railways and great ships. I must also observe that anyone with a PhD can call himself a doctor. On the evidence of some PhDs that I've met it is a mark of persistence, rather than ability.

[James]

I am employed as a broadcast engineer.

 

That is what my contract says, my job description and my job title within the organisation.

 

I am one of many.

 

Is this petition trying to say that as I don't have a degree, let alone chartered status my job a) doesn't exist, or b) is incorrectly titled - if it is the latter then what on earth have I been doing with myself for the last 6 years (3 in training / qualification - 3 as engineer)

 

James