Lighting Design Payment Structure

[DMX Will]

Hi BR,

 

I'm after some assistance with regards to how to structure payment for some lighting design. I want to do this properly rather than my usual method of a set amount.

 

Do you charge per hour on site at the theatre and then X amount for the design work previous to that, or is that based upon hours as well, or is the correct way to say Y amount including 2 or 3 days on site?

 

Also, does anyone know the average cost if one was to employ/hire an PROFESSIONAL LD (say all work before hand and two days on site)?

 

Thanks in advance.

[pauldub]

well... it all depends..

 

there is no real set rate for a designer.

 

it depends on a few things, how well known/good you are.

what the show is, who is producing it, how big it is.

 

basically you set a flat rate, and thats it. there is no hourly rate for on site, or extra meetings. you need to take all of this into account in your fee.

 

normally the producer will have a budget set aside for a designer, this is probably your starting point. you need to negotiate a fee based on your experience and the product you will deliver. How much time it will take you. Is it a show with 50 lamps or 500 lamps? are there 10 cues or 1000 cues to plot.

 

is it a small co-op or a major commercial musical?

 

in Australia I would say a reasonable rate for a designer of a major theatrical production would be about AUD$3000-6000 depending on who you are. the bigger name designers might get a bit more.

 

For a commercial musical a big name designer would get about AUD$20-30000 but there is a lot more work.

 

if the show tours then you would start to recieve royalties as well

 

dont forget to calculate your time in meetings, rehearsals, drafting, ect.ect.

[Ken Coker]

there is no real set rate for a designer.

 

 

In theatre I am afraid there is - certainly here in the UK; that's rather the point of Equity and the SBTD/ALD.

 

I'm rushing out the door to do a gig in field, so could some kind BR member post a link to the Equity rates...?

 

KC

 

Am I allowed to mention the ALD ?

[Jivemaster]

There are agreements setting minimum rates, there is NO set rate. Just as there is no set job!

 

The three pricing schemes are

What it cost based

What others charge based

and

What I want to earn based

 

The first contact with your client should define the scope of the task and this should let you know how much work there is to do, then you have to price yourself to get the job but profitably, and above the minimum nationally agreed rate.

[wako_jacko]

AS jivemaster said there is not a set rate - the TMA have a minimum amount which varys from £2,584.00 for Theatre/RSC/RNT production, down to £475.00 for minimum for commercial theatre tour/season.

 

look at thier website - http://www.tmauk.org/ratesofpay/

[Jivemaster]

As a design will be covered by the CDP legislation the design is YOURS, however you may sell all rights or some rights. You may get repeated use fees, you may not, all depends on the initial agreement.

[Renny]

normally the producer will have a budget set aside for a designer, this is probably your starting point. you need to negotiate a fee based on your experience and the product you will deliver. How much time it will take you. Is it a show with 50 lamps or 500 lamps? are there 10 cues or 1000 cues to plot.

 

In my experience virtually none of that applies. A fee is a flat rate for a design. At the initial pre rehearsal stage how are you going to know the number of lanterns or cues?

 

For example you are offered a fee in the region of £1500 but then produce a design with 25 cues and 30 lights does the producer then try to renegotiate for a fee of £1000?

 

Conversely you accept the fee and then end up giving the show every bit of kit in the theatre and 200 cues per act do you try to get more money out of them?

 

In theatre there is a fee rate system that you can't go below in subsidised theatre, based on very clear guidelines. I have done shows of hugely differing scales of cue volume etc, I've never for a moment thought or expected it to dictate the fee.

[paulears]

Flat fee is by far the best system as after all, the design is the key. So you could go for a saturated rig with loads of movers, or a small rig with carefully designed profiles with custom gobos, or ............ If it was a complexity issue, then we'd all be doing mega kit designs to get the money - we're talking about a fee for a display of your art/craft - would a graphic designer get less for a duo colour design, or a multicoloured masterpiece? Would the costume designer get paid per sequin? Time is important for some theatre trades, but not for others.

[JimWebber]

Now, I'm not professing to being a professional here, but it strikes me, that a flat fee is all about swings and roundabouts. Some shows are going to be easier then others, the money you lose on a 500 fixture, multi-moving light all singing all dancing rig, will probably be made up for by the 20 fixture rig with five cues...

 

Just my thoughts...

 

Jim

[gareth]

It's not a case of "losing money" on shows with huge rigs - a lighting design fee isn't based on a cost-per-lantern, that would be craziness. You're being paid for your design talent, the time you spend attending rehearsals and production meetings, and the time you put into coming up with the design and generating the paperwork for it. You might also get paid royalties, etc. if the production 'has legs' or is touring. The ALD and Equity have come up with a minimum fee structure (recently updated to make it more realistic in today's economic climate) defining the minimum that a lighting designer should expect to be paid in a variety of different scenarios, from small-scale regional tours to major West End musicals - anyone who accepts a design job that's paying less than the ALD/Equity minimum is doing neither themselves nor their fellow designers any favours at all. I'd also strongly recommend joining the ALD - alongside Equity, it's the closest thing a lighting designer has to a union.

[JimWebber]

It's not a case of "losing money" on shows with huge rigs - a lighting design fee isn't based on a cost-per-lantern, that would be craziness. You're being paid for your design talent, the time you spend attending rehearsals and production meetings, and the time you put into coming up with the design and generating the paperwork for it. (SNIP)

 

Okay, I apologise, I didn't come across very clearly and mentioning Money probably clouded the issue, perhaps I should have used the words time and effort instead?

 

Jim

[Jivemaster]

Your first contact and first meeting with the client, and your acknowledged status in the industry should tell you whether the fee is your call or theirs. Then as long as it is over the minima linked and mentioned above, that should be OK.

 

You will always have to keep working out "can I do the job and can I do it well for the agreed price"

[Renny]

Generally people accept or decline a job before meeting a client. Nepotism is alive and well in theatre and a lot of LD's get work on the set designers say so. Accepting the job before meeting the director is the norm. Producers count for nothing in subsidised theatre except filling out the contract.

[pauldub]

Well I guess things work a little different in the UK then this end of the world,

 

however, you still would have a rough estimation as to how many lamps would be required when getting the details of the show. The size of the theatre and how big the production this would give you a great estimation as too how many lamps you might need to light the space, and then how long it will take to focus.

 

This might not effect your fee, however it might have a big part in your descision if you are offered less then you really expected.

 

I guess if your only starting out, then take what you can get, provided its with in reason. You just want to get the work and get your name out there so you can move up in the ranks.

[J Pearce]

I don't get this size of rig to fee correlation.

 

If I were to hire an LD, I would hire them to design lighting that fits the show and works with and enhances the artistic direction.

 

Surely the degree to which they succeed at that would have a higher correlation to their fee than how many lanterns they use to achieve that.

 

I've seen beautifully lit shows using 24 lanterns, and beautifully lit shows using 240 lanterns. Equally I have seen poorly lit shows using 24 lanterns and poorly lit shows using 240 lanterns. When someone hires an LD they do not care how they achieve the artistic goal (apart from practicalities), they care that they achieve it, and that is what they pay for.