access equipment

[themadhippy]

Been following the varies threads both here and over at "the other place" on tallascopes and working at height and wondered if anybody can help with our proplem?

our foh lx bars are 17 and 15 foot from floor level,due to the auditorium being raked and fixed seating the olny easy access is by a double extension ladder,which our h+s officer does not like

a scaff tower cant be used due to the space between, and the height of, the fixed seating(even with a hi clearance base section) same with a tallascope.we have also tried a zarge,but found it very awkward to manover between the seats,even with 2 people.

so is there any other option apart from an lx bridge ? (£53k plus other ancillary costs),

dont say cherry picker cause we aint got anywere to park it (would be handy if I miss the last bus home though).

anyone any experiance of personnel jet packs <_<

[NickLee]

Can your H&S Officer quantify his dislike of the ladder?

 

As long as the right model is used in the right way, I can't see a problem myself. If it was any comfort you could alter the ladder so it had hooks to attach to any fixed bars in the roofspace, or you could lash it to the LX bars when working up there to secure it, and run a rope over the bar to lower/raise lanterns.

 

N

[richard]

If your bar can take it 'Hook Ladders' are often good, as they attatch to the bar at the top they have less risk of slipping out, but it means that the bar must be firmly affixed

[Rob]

One venue I work in regularly has the same problem. To access the FOH bars you have to place an extending ladder between the seats and lean it up against the front edge of the roof, above which is the bar.

 

To make it a bit safer, the front edge of the roof has 'spikes' (actually threaded rod - studding) set into it all the way along at 10 cm intervals. This means that if a ladder does decide to go sideways, It does not go very far before it hits a spike.

[themadhippy]

thanks for the replies,the main concern of the h+s is cis49

(above 2 meters no platform ect).Will have a look at ladders with hooks on the end,somthing like a roofing ladder I guess

cheers hippy

[gareth]

thanks for the replies,the main concern of the h+s is cis49

(above 2 meters no platform ect).

Surely that also rules out almost all ladder work, not just FOH focussing???

 

If your H&S chap is so keen to enforce this, ask him for recommendations (in writing) for alternative methods of access that he would approve of. That way, at least you'll have it in black and white from the HSE when you need to justify the purchase of a couple of access platforms.

[robloxley]

I'd agree with the H&S man that a ladder doesn;t sound like the right thing to rig or focus at that height over seating in a raked auditorium. I wouldn't go for citing CIS49 as a sole reason (for reasons I've already gone into), but would probably come to a similar conclusion after the risk assessment process, and the fact there are better solutions:

 

Genie have a solution for this very problem: a Super Straddle, for using Genie arial work platforms above auditorium seating (upto 1m of vertical clearance). This solution also results in you having a Genie to focus overstage, which is a fairly good solution to that end of things.

 

Alternatively, given that any solution isn't going to be cheap, could you not get a custom access tower made for you that would fit around your seating height/spacing?

 

I'd also suggest that you look at putting the FOH bars on electric winches. This won't help with focussing, but will make rigging easier, safer and quicker (and if staff are being paid this could be an important consideration).

 

I wouldn't reccomend ladders with hooks on as a solution: by the time you've rigged and focussed both bars, fatigue is going to be a serious safety concern. I'd not be happy hauling lanterns up and down a ladder to rig either, on an inherent safety point (rather than fatigue).

[NickLee]

I wouldn't reccomend ladders with hooks on as a solution: by the time you've rigged and focussed both bars, fatigue is going to be a serious safety concern. I'd not be happy hauling lanterns up and down a ladder to rig either, on an inherent safety point (rather than fatigue).

You're right about lugging lanterns - that's why "winching" the lanterns over the bar can work, with a willing assistant to attach a lantern to a rope and then pull it up for you using a rope hung over the bar.

 

Saves carrying heavy objects, and means you don't have to go up and down for more lanterns.

 

N.

[themadhippy]

Surely that also rules out almost all ladder work, not just FOH focussing???

oops good point

must confess to using the ladder for rigging ect for 6+ years and am pretty used to it,we're olny a small venue so our rigs arnt too big,the biggest advantage of the ladder is its very quick to make those last minute changes.The nice lady from h+s recomended hi level walkways (£53k +) but is willing to look at any other options we can come up with.

will give the genie site another visit,we've tryed a hi clearance base for our scaff tower but you cant get it perfectly level,and its a very tight fit between the seats.

[robloxley]

Saves carrying heavy objects, and means you don't have to go up and down for more lanterns.

Yes, but it does mean you still have to go up and down the ladder to move it along the bar as you go. Say you have 15 lanterns to rig per bar and each takes 3 minutes, that's 90 minutes for two people just to rig those two bars, and you've been up and down that ladder 30 times. Then another 30 to focus, and you're well knackered!

 

The Genie solution is hidden in the accessories section of the AWP catalogue, or give Genie UK a call.

 

Let us know how you get on with this

[Guest lightnix]

attach a lantern to a rope and then pull it up for you using a rope hung over the bar.

On the other hand if you use a pulley, it:

I) saves a lot of effort and reduces fatigue

ii) doesn't trash an expensive piece of rope with the heat that builds up from friction (I once had a brand new rope totally ruined by a pair of cowboys who slung it over a bar to haul up lanterns. When I tried to tap them for the £100+ it would cost to replace it, their glib reply was "oh well, you shouldn't have lent it to us then" :P :D :D )

The nice lady from h+s recomended hi level walkways (£53k +)

Presumably a higher price than somebodys life is worth, then (no disrespect / offence)

 

Without going into a rant, this sounds like yet another case of money being put before people. Mind you, having read the thread on local theatre closures, you may not have to worry about it much longer.

 

Sorry for not being helpful here, but this kind of thread makes me laugh, cry and be grateful that I'm no longer a part of this nonsense any more - and all at the same time :D :D :huh: <_<

[themadhippy]

lightnix youve hit the nail on the head,were being told you must comply with everything h+s tells you,until the bean counters realise its costing them money.

£53k is alot of cash for our venue,in fact its around 25 years worth of our technical budget so if there looking for an excuse to close us ...............