Safety Curtain Minimum Fall Time

[Ike]

I see to remember there being a suggested minimum fall time for the last x meters of travel of a safety curtain to minimise the risk of injury, does anyone know what it is or where it was suggested?

[David Ripley]

from the Technical Standards for Places of Entertainment (The Yellow Book)

 

Section E4.07 The (Safety) Curtain should be designed so as to close the proscenium opening completely within 30 seconds of the operation of the release mechanism.

 

HTH

 

David

[mikienorth]

Recent information I have seen specifies an iron being slowed at 2500mm above the stage floor, but, like the poster above me, the iron must form a complete seal within 30 seconds, and take no longer than 60 to be lifted.

[Ike]

Recent information I have seen specifies an iron being slowed at 2500mm above the stage floor

This sounds similar to what I'm thinking of, any idea where it's from or what rate it should be slowed to?

 

Edit: Having spoken to a couple of people since my last post it seems a minimum of 5 seconds for the last 2500mm (or 8 foot) of travel is a generally accepted figure.

 

Thanks for all the PMs

 

Ike

[chipito]

I'm only a noob at all things "Blue Roomy" but has a safety curtain actually saved anyone?

I mean, I'm guessing it has to be fireproof etc. to seperate the stage from the audience (to protect either from the other) but has it actually ever done so?

 

I may even be way off base and the actual function is something entirely different.

But if you don't ask you don't know .....

[obsoperator]

Well, I only need one citation to prove the answer, which I got from Google:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/loca...5501994,00.html

 

But "theater fire curtain saved lives" mostly brings up the Iroquois Theater fire, where the curtain failed to work right.

 

Here's a UK story without a curtain:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/southwest/s...atre_fire.shtml

 

I just want to make sure you're aware of just how many theaters have burned down and often been rebuilt upon the same site. I should add that in the very modern theater where I worked in 1986, the "Deluge Curtain" has been mistriggered three times since then, ruining both the act curtain and all the carpet on that building level. (The Joyce Theater, NYC USA.)

 

I realize that it's current practice in, say, health care, to try and ascertain whether medicines and treatments are actually safe and effective for what they are intended to do, instead of being just the "conventional" prescription. So if there's something better than a fire curtain, we should certainly have it. But are you suggesting that it might be a waste and therefore eliminated? (Apologies if I'm putting words in your mouth-as you know computer posts lack "affect".)

 

Given that a proscenium theater is a pair of huge rooms linked by an empty opening, and one side is filled with poorly fire-retarded, hastily-assembled detritus, it seems to me that the only thing better would be a more substantial, and expensive curtain! Certainly the safety record of sprinklered buildings suggests that all one-room (I mean, lab/arena/etc. theaters) should be fully sprinklered, since there's no way to separate the audience from the "stage".

 

I don't know about the UK, but the US is too hasty to hear pleas of poverty from "Not For Profit" groups and give them extra time or exemptions.. There have been at least two horrible college dormitory fires here in the last ten years, with deaths resulting from "grandfathering" dorms built before current sprinkler requirements.

[roryfm]

I may even be way off base and the actual function is something entirely different.

But if you don't ask you don't know .....

 

The function of the safety curtain is to be be closed in the event of a fire, thus seperating the auditorium from the fire and hence buying more time to safely evacuate the punters (my god I just used the words thus and hence in a sentence!)

By coupling the safety curtain with the lantern (a big skylight at the top of the fly tower) you effectively create a bloody great big chimney so the fire will spread upward and not into the auditorium, again buying more time.

 

If I've got my facts right, it is required in the UK to display the safety curtain once during every event (usually done at the interval) although I'm pretty sure most of the audience have no idea what it's actually therefore.

 

Please feel free to correct me if I have grabbed the wrong end of the proverbial stick,

 

roryfm

[mikienorth]

The combination of the safety curtain and the lantern/forced ventilation over the stage is designed to work together, to create a low pressure zone. This causes air to move from the auditorium onto stage (through small holes (doors)) and lessen the effects of smoke in areas where there is a greater concentration of people (public) making their escape easier. A saftey curtain is not used for compartmentalising a building in the event of fire to limit the spread of fire, as to make one that good would be too big and heavy.

The guides of the Iron, and the Iron, must be strong enough to resit the buckling of the iron under pressure equivalent to 50kg/m square (I'm not sure, I'll double check tonight) if a drencher is installed, and 100kg/m if no drencher is there.

I'd love to see something weighing 3-6 tons buckle, or rather, the aftermath...

 

It should have an effective time of 30 minutes??

 

The purpose of a drencher is to cool the rear of the iron, prolonging it's effectiveness.

 

The rear of the iron must be resilient enough to resist damage from falling debris and scenery

 

The area behind the iron must not be ventilated direct from the outside world, but rather via the auditorium for the desired operation of an iron to be effective

 

Guess who read the yellow book last night, after wondering about safety curtains, prompted by this thread.....!

 

Edit:

Rory is correct that an iron must be shown at every event. This is to prove to the audience that the safety systems work correctly, and so alarm is not caused when the iron is lowered.

The fact that some shows have really big noisy interval presets (Grease Touring) and sort of rely on the noise barrier that an iron is, is sort of an added bonus...

[Seano]

I'd love to see something weighing 3-6 tons buckle, or rather, the aftermath...

 

Its a bit OT, but I believe the iron at the Belfast Grand Opera House was buckled, or at least forced out of its guides, by the blast of the bomb in 1993. There may be photos out there somewhere. As I understand it, it helped to limit the damage to the (gorgeous) auditorium.

[Grahame]

Rory is correct that an iron must be shown at every event. This is to prove to the audience that the safety systems work correctly, and so alarm is not caused when the iron is lowered.

I believe that the UK legislation requiring the dropping of the iron in view of the audience arose after the 1911 Empire Palace of Varieties (now the Festival Theatre) fire in which The Great Lafayette and many of his company died. One of the greatest illusionists of his time, Lafayette was paranoid about secrecy and insisted that all doors leading to the stage were locked during his act, and only his own company members were allowed on stage (apart from the flymen, who did manage to escape the fire).

An oil lamp was knocked over during the finale of his act, and the silk dressings quickly caught fire, turning the stage into an inferno.

I've been told by theatre staff (but haven't found any evidence in support of this yet) that the iron was dropped, but a piece of scenery stopped it falling the last few feet, allowing a good airflow to feed the flames.

There is also a tale of how the first body they found and held the funeral for was not in fact Lafayette, but one of his doubles; and that is why Lafayette is still thought to haunt the theatre.

 

Some good references to the story here and here.

[dunk_1984]

If I've got my facts right, it is required in the UK to display the safety curtain once during every event (usually done at the interval) although I'm pretty sure most of the audience have no idea what it's actually therefore.

 

I know that some insurances speculate that the Iron must be dropped in view of 75% of an audience before a show.

[David Ripley]

The requirements as to whether you have an iron and then show it are down to the licensing authority and forms part of the conditions of Entertainment Licence.

 

This means it is different in any part of the country. For instance when I was in Basingstoke we had to show the iron. Up here in Glasgow we don't.

 

The same applies to degrees of fire retardency on stage, some houses are 'Class 1' or now Class A, I think, others don't care

 

The Yellow and Green books are National Standards but there is no National legislation enforcing what they say

 

David

[paulears]

There are an awful lot of iron myths. We dropped ours every day until we tightened up our safety standards and had the experts in to sort out our old, and fairly dilapedated systems. The local authority were involved and a lot of work was carried out. During the work it was only then discovered that our Entertainment Licence, as mentioned by David, simply required us to have a safety curtain that could complete it's closure in less than 30 seconds and be in good condition. So since then, we've carried out regular tests without the audience. It has regular tests from an outside company, and interestingly, there is no requirement for the drencher system, however, we've had that serviced too. While servicing it, they discovered the release valve had been wrongly assembled, and would never have worked if the lever was pulled. It had never been tested, as the original design didn't feature any form of drain c0ck, or isolator, so no way to test it without releasing the water into the perforated tube.

[chipito]

Cheers chaps.

I had a simple question and once agin you UK Blue Room Boys had the knowledge.

 

Is there anything you lot don't know?!?

:)

[Jivemaster]

I also remember the iron being used as the projection screen for interval advertising, and having suitable artwork on the audience side. But these may well have been asbestos filled ones from history.